[LNahid2000]

Ah, so basically another Del Duca re-announcement.

 

[raptor]

Ah, so basically another Del Duca re-announcement.

Not really. It's a new RFQ for actual grading, double tracking and bridge widenings. It had never been announced before.

 

[crs1026]

Ah, so basically another Del Duca re-announcement.

No, this one is substantive in the sense that it actually starts the procurement process and implies a commitment to funding. That's actual advancement towards work getting done, as opposed to announcing "planning" or "studying".

If they keep to schedule, they will have the work placed by year end. That will get contracts signed before the next election. I can't see either opposition party coming out and cancelling this once it gets going.

- Paul

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

From the point of view of the residents of Stouffville, the new GO schedule is a big inconvenience. Please consider the following:

1. We used to have connections to downtown Toronto every 30 minutes. Now, we will have connection every 60 minutes.

2. The bus trips at 10:06 and 10:36 used to take 59 minutes to Union Station. Now, using the trains that replaced these buses (at awkward times of 9:24 and 10:21 -- which will inconvenience people to change their morning schedules), the trips will take 71 and 66 minutes, respectively.

3. The bus trips past 10:21 used to take 59 minutes. Now, the new bus trips that require changeover at Unionville take an incredible 93 minutes!!! That's over half an hour wasted commuting each way!

4. The buses at Stouffville would collect people along 10th Line, Main St. and 48th, so most Stouffville residents could just walk to take Go Transit. Now, in order to use the new Go Trains, residents of Stouffville will need to buy cars just to get to the Go Station. And even if they do that, the parking lot there is going to be full after 8:00am, so there is no way to park anyways. Please note that we don't have local YRT buses in Stouffville, so the new changes cut-off most of residents of Stouffville from using Go service.

And to add insult to injury, it will cost much more to operate and maintain the new trains, comparing to the cost of operating buses. So more of our tax dollars is going to be spent in order to provide worse service.

Here is the original announcement:
http://www.gotransit.com/Public/en/n...e/Default.aspx

Welcome to UT!

 

[Allandale25]

Agreed, welcome to UT. Helpful perspective and potentially relevant observations to be mindful for other lines when the addition of off-peak trains is implemented. There can be some draw backs.

Welcome to UT!

From the point of view of the residents of Stouffville, the new GO schedule is a big inconvenience. Please consider the following:

1. We used to have connections to downtown Toronto every 30 minutes. Now, we will have connection every 60 minutes.

2. The bus trips at 10:06 and 10:36 used to take 59 minutes to Union Station. Now, using the trains that replaced these buses (at awkward times of 9:24 and 10:21 -- which will inconvenience people to change their morning schedules), the trips will take 71 and 66 minutes, respectively.

3. The bus trips past 10:21 used to take 59 minutes. Now, the new bus trips that require changeover at Unionville take an incredible 93 minutes!!! That's over half an hour wasted commuting each way!

4. The buses at Stouffville would collect people along 10th Line, Main St. and 48th, so most Stouffville residents could just walk to take Go Transit. Now, in order to use the new Go Trains, residents of Stouffville will need to buy cars just to get to the Go Station. And even if they do that, the parking lot there is going to be full after 8:00am, so there is no way to park anyways. Please note that we don't have local YRT buses in Stouffville, so the new changes cut-off most of residents of Stouffville from using Go service.

And to add insult to injury, it will cost much more to operate and maintain the new trains, comparing to the cost of operating buses. So more of our tax dollars is going to be spent in order to provide worse service.

Here is the original announcement:
http://www.gotransit.com/Public/en/n...e/Default.aspx

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Major Upgrades Coming to the Barrie GO Line

And here is the RFQ

If anyone is registered, please post the scope of this RFQ, and what works are included

Ontario Bringing All-Day, Evening and Weekend GO Service to Barrie Families and Commuters
Ontario is making major upgrades to the Barrie GO Line to bring all-day, evening and weekend GO service to Barrie residents, helping to manage congestion and make it easier for commuters to take transit.
Steven Del Duca, Minister of Transportation, was joined by Ann Hoggarth, MPP for Barrie, to announce major new upgrades coming to the Barrie Line to accommodate more frequent trains.

Planned upgrades include:

▪ Double track expansion on the Barrie GO Line, including grading between Union Station and Aurora GO Station

▪ Track and signals upgrades to support double track expansion

▪ Noise and retaining walls

▪ Bridge expansions at Sheppard Avenue West, Major Mackenzie Drive and Yonge Street.

To accommodate additional service, the province will also build a new layover facility and make modifications to Barrie's two existing stations, including 139 new parking spots at the Barrie South GO station.

The Barrie Rail Corridor Expansion - Grading Project supports Ontario.ca/Build ON.

Building better public transit to improve commuting is part of our plan to create jobs, grow our economy and help people in their everyday lives.


QUICK FACTS

• Infrastructure Ontario (IO) and Metrolinx have issued a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) for interested parties to build and finance the Barrie Rail Corridor Expansion – Grading Project.
• The RFQ is the first step in the procurement process to select a team to deliver the project. IO and Metrolinx will evaluate submissions to prequalify project teams with the relevant construction experience. Teams that qualify will be invited to respond to a request for proposals in the fall of 2017.
• By 2025, planned service levels on the Barrie GO line under the GO RER program includes two-way service every 15 minutes between Union Station and Aurora Station, two-way service every 60 minutes between Union Station and Allandale Waterfront Station during the midday and evening periods of weekdays as well as on weekends, and peak-period, peak-direction service on weekdays, at frequencies of every 30 minutes, between Union Station and Allandale Waterfront Station. The entire line will also be electrified.

From: http://www.infrastructureontario.ca...ssued-Barrie-Rail-Corridor-Expansion-Project/
It is confirmed that the following upgrades are included in the RFQ:

• Double track expansion on the Barrie Corridor Line, including grading, between Union Station and Aurora GO Station
• Track and signals upgrades to support double track expansion
• Noise and retaining walls
• Bridge expansions at Sheppard Avenue West, Major Mackenzie Drive and Yonge Street

Great to See. Finally some real progress. Now sort out the Brampton situtation.

 

[TransitBart]

Major Upgrades Coming to the Barrie GO Line

And here is the RFQ

If anyone is registered, please post the scope of this RFQ, and what works are included

Why can't (a government or a transit agency) be bold enough to say "and under the current circumstances, we anticipate that such and such will be in service on January 1, 2019" ?

 

[canarob]

From the point of view of the residents of Stouffville, the new GO schedule is a big inconvenience. Please consider the following:

1. We used to have connections to downtown Toronto every 30 minutes. Now, we will have connection every 60 minutes.

2. The bus trips at 10:06 and 10:36 used to take 59 minutes to Union Station. Now, using the trains that replaced these buses (at awkward times of 9:24 and 10:21 -- which will inconvenience people to change their morning schedules), the trips will take 71 and 66 minutes, respectively.

3. The bus trips past 10:21 used to take 59 minutes. Now, the new bus trips that require changeover at Unionville take an incredible 93 minutes!!! That's over half an hour wasted commuting each way!

4. The buses at Stouffville would collect people along 10th Line, Main St. and 48th, so most Stouffville residents could just walk to take Go Transit. Now, in order to use the new Go Trains, residents of Stouffville will need to buy cars just to get to the Go Station. And even if they do that, the parking lot there is going to be full after 8:00am, so there is no way to park anyways. Please note that we don't have local YRT buses in Stouffville, so the new changes cut-off most of residents of Stouffville from using Go service.

And to add insult to injury, it will cost much more to operate and maintain the new trains, comparing to the cost of operating buses. So more of our tax dollars is going to be spent in order to provide worse service.

Here is the original announcement:
http://www.gotransit.com/Public/en/n...e/Default.aspx

Welcome to UT!

I take Markham GO, so I'm also inconvenienced (to a lesser extent) by the trips that end at Unionville, but I still think it's a step in the right direction. Traffic on the DVP and within Markham gets worse every year and the 59 minutes is only when there is minimal traffic. I've been stuck on the bus to and from Union on the DVP for over an hour countless times. The train will at least be predictable. Once full RER is rolled out, Stouffville will have hourly service and buses to Mount Joy for the other trips, so that should be much faster. Plus, the whole line will be electrified eventually. I agree that the mid-day service is going to be very inconvenient for anyone north of Unionville until service is expanded further though.

The other issue is capacity. So many of the evening buses are standing-room only, so this will make the trip more comfortable. Also, I'm good and done with lining up outside at the bus terminal, especially in the winter. I'd rather a slightly longer and more predictable train ride than a crowded bus that's at the whim of traffic. Some of that comes down to personal preference though.

I think YRT should add more shuttle service to Stouffville GO. It could stop on all the streets you mention.

 

[nfitz]

2. The bus trips at 10:06 and 10:36 used to take 59 minutes to Union Station. Now, using the trains that replaced these buses (at awkward times of 9:24 and 10:21 -- which will inconvenience people to change their morning schedules), the trips will take 71 and 66 minutes, respectively.

Don't forget they pad the train schedules into Union more than the buses because of the 15-minute service guarantee. It's best to compare the inbound travel times to a station before Union. Or compare the outbound travel times.

Also don't forget that the buses ran non-stop inside Toronto. So someone who wanted to go to, say, National Post at Sherbourne/Bloor used to have to take 2 subway trains, and now has the option to take 1 from Kennedy GO.

You see, to have cherry picked a bit. Current departures from Stouffville in late AM peak are 8:18 (train), 8:57 (bus/train), and 10:06 (bus). Now they are 8:18 (train), 9:24 (train), and 10:14 (train). For someone currently departing at 8:57, the current travel time is 98 minutes arriving at 10:35. Now they depart at 9:24 with a travel time of 71 minutes arriving still at 10:35. That's a 27-minute saving. That passenger didn't get screwed.

Or the person returning to Stouffville from Union at 3:11 pm. They currently get to Stouffville at 4:31 pm. Now they will arrive at 4:13 pm.

There's also a lot more trips now between Stouffville and Unionville, for those that want to get to Markham/Richmond Hill.

Some improvements, some not so. Bet it works a lot better on a snow day than it does now!

 

[smallspy]

Why can't (a government or a transit agency) be bold enough to say "and under the current circumstances, we anticipate that such and such will be in service on January 1, 2019" ?

Because then they look like asshats when that date isn't met for any number of different reasons.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[TransitBart]

Because then they look like asshats when that date isn't met for any number of different reasons.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

So when might any of these contracted improvements come into service?

 

[crs1026]

So when might any of these contracted improvements come into service?

Well, if you take this press release of January 21 2009 as the starting point...... it may be a while yet. TPAP initiation to opening for GTS was six years, and we still don't have the two way all day service that was promised then.

I expect the presentations at the upcoming community meetings may have a hint at the first iteration of a timeline which will change over the project. Late trains only get later.

- Paul

PS - The first EA for the GTS ran from 2006 to 2008 before its cancellation. The Second Federal EA and Provincial EA ocurred in 2009.

 

[crs1026]

A little digression about asshats and the shifting sands of Metrolinx deliverables and project timings. If you are ever researching the paper trail on how ML projects start, a good source of information is the minutes of city council meetings from the municipalities along the line of interest. While the Province and Metrolinx do their best to rewrite history by deleting and de-archiving materials from past presentations, many documents find their way into archival records of municipal council meetings via staff reports and communication to municipal politicians. It's much harder for ML to expunge these, so they remain as the original alternative facts of ML planning and project scope before things go over budget and get cut back and victory is declared on a much more limited accomplishment.

As an example, consider this letter from ML CEO Robert Pritchard to Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion dated June 23, 2009. In this, Pritchard states

It's interesting how many he trains he promises, but then he clarifies that he is talking about the stretch east of Parkdale (I'm not sure why Hazel would care about that point)

As it turns out, we have 64 trains (30 Georgetown, 14 Barrie, 20 Milton) a day today versus his projection of 90. If some of us sound like we disbelieve what ML tells us, here's an example of just why that is. They always overpromise and underdeliver.

Having said that, I do believe that some level of improved service is on its way to Barrie. Just consider that the amount of track to be laid will be comparable to what was laid in the GTS project. There are fewer level crossings to separate, but there is the Davenport Diamond plus a lot more linear km's of line to grade. There is also the "promise" to the Davenport community that off peak service won't exceed hourly (specifically, there is a limit on number of trains per day) until electrification is introduced. My point being, it's a lot of work and will take a long time and what turns up may be much less that what we first believed was coming.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

Because then they look like asshats when that date isn't met for any number of different reasons.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Why not instead only announce the completion of projects only?

 

[44 North]

While the Province and Metrolinx do their best to rewrite history by deleting and de-archiving materials from past presentations, many documents find their way into archival records of municipal council meetings via staff reports and communication to municipal politicians. It's much harder for ML to expunge these, so they remain as the original alternative facts of ML planning and project scope before things go over budget and get cut back and victory is declared on a much more limited accomplishment.

Okay, I'm glad I'm not the only person that notices this kinda of de-archiving, shifting around, and expunging of materials.