[TransitBart]

Those above commuter rail surveys is a very damning report on the "success" of the UPX. RTM's Mascouche line has just 8 trips a days carrying 11,000 passengers while it takes the UPX 83 trips a day to do the same. Small wonder the UPX needs such massive subsidies to stay afloat.

This should be a very cautionary tales to Metrolinx and one that I have been saying for years...........you can run the trains as frequently as you like but if people can't afford to take it then it won't make any difference. The UPX is essentially a RER route as it stands right now with 15 minute all-day, two-way trains as is planned by RER on all routes and yet the ridership is pathetic made worse by the fact that it connects the downtown with the 2nd largest employment centre in the GTA and, by far, Canada's busiest airport.

RER could be a fantastic success with ridership potentially overtaking the current subways or it will go down as a complete white elephant and it will all depend on the fares.

What a load of factless drivel about UPX.

I know nothing of Montreal ‘s regional rail service, but I have read here that a 12 coach GO train can hold about 1500 passengers. Eight trips with one of those babies adds to 11,000 passengers. So if you are bringing people by the ton from a suburb, perfect.

Not sure if anyone noticed, but UPX trains are smaller two and three car consists that move about 60 to 70 people per trip on average.

If one really wants to get argumentative and exercised, then 83 ain’t the total trips. The service runs about 21 hours a day, 4 times per hour which is 84 trips in one direction. So it’s 83 Round Trips or about 168 total runs in 21 hours. I am shaking with rage like Marvin the Martian at the thought.

I have never boarded a plane with 1500 other people. I think they dribble into and out of airports a few 100 at a time. 168 trips over 21 hours sounds good to me. The same way planes arrive and take off continually throughout a day.

Furthermore, if we think for a moment that about 48 million passengers used the airport last year, then that’s about 131,000 per day. If 11,000 of them took the train, then that is an 8% mode capture after less than 36 months. Considering that the train goes only east - so it’s no good if you live in Mississauga, Milton or London, I’d say 8% is pretty great.

I am outraged. Not.

 

[nfitz]

Considering that the train goes only east - so it’s no good if you live in Mississauga, Milton or London, I’d say 8% is pretty great.

It's not particularly useful if you live in much of Scarberia either. Or Etobicrack or North York.

8% is very good. Maybe should extend it though to Danforth station and then terminate some at Kennedy station and others out towards Guildwood.

And increase fares a little - I really shouldn't have to be standing with kids trying to get to the airport, after paying a premium fare.

 

[TransitBart]

It's not particularly useful if you live in much of Scarberia either. Or Etobicrack or North York.

8% is very good.

Yes, it is.

 

[reaperexpress]

What a load of factless drivel about UPX.

I know nothing of Montreal ‘s regional rail service, but I have read here that a 12 coach GO train can hold about 1500 passengers. Eight trips with one of those babies adds to 11,000 passengers. So if you are bringing people by the ton from a suburb, perfect.

Not sure if anyone noticed, but UPX trains are smaller two and three car consists that move about 60 to 70 people per trip on average.

If one really wants to get argumentative and exercised, then 83 ain’t the total trips. The service runs about 21 hours a day, 4 times per hour which is 84 trips in one direction. So it’s 83 Round Trips or about 168 total runs in 21 hours. I am shaking with rage like Marvin the Martian at the thought.

I have never boarded a plane with 1500 other people. I think they dribble into and out of airports a few 100 at a time. 168 trips over 21 hours sounds good to me. The same way planes arrive and take off continually throughout a day.

Furthermore, if we think for a moment that about 48 million passengers used the airport last year, then that’s about 131,000 per day. If 11,000 of them took the train, then that is an 8% mode capture after less than 36 months. Considering that the train goes only east - so it’s no good if you live in Mississauga, Milton or London, I’d say 8% is pretty great.

I am outraged. Not.

I think we can all save our efforts on this one.

ssiguy2 posted exactly the same comment last year when I released the 2016 summary. We then proceeded to explain in considerable detail why UP Express trains would have a much lower operational cost per trip than a peak-only commuter service, so a simple X-divided-by-Y doesn't really tell you anything about cost-effectiveness. And as we can see this year, that effort was wasted.

Rule #__ of the internet: Don't Feed The Trolls.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I think I should have taken the train to work today. Was the 7:48am Union to Port Credit+ delayed? I can't see to find where to see recent past vs. current delays.

Where's the best place to check for current delays? When I look on the Go website I find it confusing, click here for trains, then Lakeshore West, then scroll and search....

 

[Edward Skira]

News Release

Ontario Cuts TTC Fare for People Connecting to or from GO Transit
January 8, 2018

Province Also Opens New Downsview Park GO Station, With Seamless Connection Between GO and TTC
Ontario has cut the cost of commuting by up to $1.50 for people who use their PRESTO card to transfer between the TTC and GO Transit or the UP Express, and has officially opened its 66th GO Transit station at Downsview Park, which provides a direct connection to the new TTC Line 1 subway extension to York Region.

Steven Del Duca, Minister of Transportation, visited Downsview Park Station today to announce that the new discounted TTC fare is now in effect, and to officially open the GO Transit platforms.

People who use their PRESTO card to transfer between the TTC and GO Transit or the UP Express will now save up to $1.50 on the cost of their fare. Regular commuters who use PRESTO to transfer between GO Transit and the TTC will save about $720 per year.

The new Downsview Park station provides commuters with a direct transfer between all-day train service on the Barrie GO line and the new TTC Line 1 subway extension, and is the first station to provide both GO and TTC service in the same facility. Last month, Ontario celebrated the largest expansion of Toronto's subway system in nearly 40 years, with the opening of the new TTC Line 1 extension into York region.

Making public transit more affordable is part of Ontario's plan to create fairness and opportunity during this period of rapid economic change. The plan includes a higher minimum wage and better working conditions, free tuition for hundreds of thousands of students, easier access to affordable child care, and free prescription drugs for everyone under 25 through the biggest expansion of medicare in a generation.

 

[reaperexpress]

I think I should have taken the train to work today. Was the 7:48am Union to Port Credit+ delayed? I can't see to find where to see recent past vs. current delays.

Where's the best place to check for current delays? When I look on the Go website I find it confusing, click here for trains, then Lakeshore West, then scroll and search....

I use GOTracker.ca

 

[PinkLucy]

GOToronto is what I use

 

[ssiguy2]

So let's say the UPX could run 10 car trains, the point is it wouldn't make any difference. People aren't taking it because it's too expensive.

This is what RER is going to be except it's not electrified but due to having relatively few stops, that doesn't make much difference in time. You honestly mean to tell me that there are only a couple thousand people a day heading from Bloor West and Weston to downtown? For people coming from Weston and those on the Bloor Line west of Dundas West the UPX is infinitely faster and more comfortable than the bus/subway so why aren't they taking the UPX?

I mean that as a serious question. Why are so few people in those areas taking the UPX if the service is faster and more comfortable than the subway/bus if not for the large difference in price, I really want to know what else it could be. Also if Torontonians aren't taking the UPX RER line now than what makes you think they will when the other lines open?

 

[Leo_Chan]

So let's say the UPX could run 10 car trains, the point is it wouldn't make any difference. People aren't taking it because it's too expensive.

This is what RER is going to be except it's not electrified but due to having relatively few stops, that doesn't make much difference in time. You honestly mean to tell me that there are only a couple thousand people a day heading from Bloor West and Weston to downtown? For people coming from Weston and those on the Bloor Line west of Dundas West the UPX is infinitely faster and more comfortable than the bus/subway so why aren't they taking the UPX?

I mean that as a serious question. Why are so few people in those areas taking the UPX if the service is faster and more comfortable than the subway/bus if not for the large difference in price, I really want to know what else it could be. Also if Torontonians aren't taking the UPX RER line now than what makes you think they will when the other lines open?

People don’t like change and will stay with the TTC, which is something familiar.

 

[torontocolin]

UPX isn't intended to provide local service. Whether or not you think it should is a different matter (I actually do), but criticizing it for failing to be something it's not trying to be isn't very productive. And the UPX often runs at or near capacity during rush hours, and with the transfer at Dundas West right now it's definitely not "infinitely faster."

RER will provide service to the 905, and the hope is that they will find it worthwhile at the prices Metrolinx charges. I hope they make an effort to draw local ridership as well, and that will mean pricing accordingly, but they have a long time yet to figure that out.

 

[PinkLucy]

UPX dropped its price and usage increased. Smart move on their part.

 

[amnesiajune]

So let's say the UPX could run 10 car trains, the point is it wouldn't make any difference. People aren't taking it because it's too expensive.

The trains are full most of the day. 10 car trains obviously wouldn't be, but that's because it's on a separate fare system from the rest of Toronto's transit and very little is within walking distance of all but one station.

I mean that as a serious question. Why are so few people in those areas taking the UPX if the service is faster and more comfortable than the subway/bus if not for the large difference in price, I really want to know what else it could be.

People who live within walking distance of one of the stations and work within walking distance of another generally do take UPX or Go Trains to work. People aren't transferring between TTC and UPX for their commutes, but that's a result of high cost and a pretty good alternative (the subway system)

Also if Torontonians aren't taking the UPX RER line now than what makes you think they will when the other lines open?

Like your other comment said earlier, the price! Tons of people will take RER trains if they're part of the TTC fare system. Nobody will take them under the current system. That's what makes fare integration so appealing to them - Metrolinx would get a lot more revenue if they made Go Trains within Toronto a part of the TTC fare system. The problem is how to make this happen with the agreement of the TTC, who don't want to lose any revenue even if it does free up capacity on Yonge.

People don’t like change and will stay with the TTC, which is something familiar.

They'll change their habits soon enough. That's part of why transit ridership projections are low for the first few years of a new service like TYSSE. It takes a while for everyone to settle into their new travel habits.

 

[TOareaFan]

The notion that "no one" is taking the UP from stations inside Toronto to Union is what is wrong with this discussion.

As has been noted numerous times before (and, seemingly, ignored each time)......virtually no one is getting on or off GO trains at Weston anymore. What used to be a fairly busy station in the corridor has seen all of the passengers move over to the UP platform.....I have no idea (because I am on the GO train) if more people are riding in from Weston than before...but "all" of the people who were previously commuting by GO are now doing so on UP (from Weston that is).

 

[gweed123]

For people coming from Weston and those on the Bloor Line west of Dundas West the UPX is infinitely faster and more comfortable than the bus/subway so why aren't they taking the UPX?

Well for one, the TTC-GO/UPX transfer at Dundas West/Bloor is a PITA, and there aren't very many TTC connections at Weston. If you're going from Dundas West to Bloor GO, by the time you get up the stairs, across the street, down the street, and up the set of stairs inside Bloor GO, you'd have been at Ossington or Christie by then, so a good chunk of your time savings is shot. Make that connection more seamless, and I think you'll see a lot more people doing that movement, especially with the $1.50 co-fare.