[reaperexpress]

@reaperexpress

I assume you opted not to show the 1850 westbound from Union?

Yeah it's still there in the full schedule. I cut the screenshot off after 1800 because there weren't any changes to the 1800 or 1850 anyway. Similarly the 9:18 VIA is cut off but it's still in the schedule.

Here's the new Kitchener-Guelph consolidated GO+VIA schedule:

It's annoying that they keep adding trips super early in the morning when there's no traffic, rather than later trips when people are actually awake and buses would get stuck in traffic. A train trip arriving Guelph around 8:30 would be far more useful than the additional 6:00 arrival. On the bright side, the new earlier westbound departure at least brings KW to Guelph commuting into the realm of possibility.

 

[lenaitch]

Whoa!

Every hour service, here's the Midland website page on it:
https://www.midland.ca/Shared Documents/LINX-Ride-Guide_FINAL.pdf

This looks excellent, it's truly unfortunate that Ontario is so azz-backwards that it isn't promoting routes like these, ostensibly that will mesh with GO in Barrie.

I'll definitely do a review on this come Summer. (Did Waubaushene to Barrie last year, parts beautiful, other stretches ruined by choice of very coarse sharp gravel Uhthoff to north of Orillia). The North Simcoe Trail stretch to Midland looks far friendlier in terms of trail surface and variation in scenery.

See: https://www.simcoe.ca/InformationTechnology/Pages/TrailMaps.aspx

Doesn't connect to GO, not even Barrie Transit downtown terminal. The trail from Waub (ish) to Midland is paved. If you get over to the Tiny trial it goes back down through Elmvale to west of Barrie (former CN North Simcoe sub). Not sure of the exact routing but a serious rider could do a loop.

 

[ShonTron]

Doesn't connect to GO, not even Barrie Transit downtown terminal. The trail from Waub (ish) to Midland is paved. If you get over to the Tiny trial it goes back down through Elmvale to west of Barrie (former CN North Simcoe sub). Not sure of the exact routing but a serious rider could do a loop.

I was looking at that possibility, though I’d like to know what the best (safest and/or flattest) route would be between Barrie and the North Simcoe Trail.

I did Barrie-Midland via Orillia once and remember being disappointed by the trail condition between Orillia and Medonte, but the long paved section between the Highway 400 and Midland was a very pleasant surprise.

 

[steveintoronto]

I was looking at that possibility, though I’d like to know what the best (safest and/or flattest) route would be between Barrie and the North Simcoe Trail.

I did Barrie-Midland via Orillia once and remember being disappointed by the trail condition between Orillia and Medonte, but the long paved section between the Highway 400 and Midland was a very pleasant surprise.

I was studying the maps closely last night. It's actually three trails in name (the same old RoW almost the whole distance) that connect end-on-end going down the western side of the loop from Midland. It doesn't take you all the way to Barrie, I'm a bit concerned about getting stuck on arterial roads, got to find some back roads to do it, but those bus routes offer an opportune way as an emergency back-up if trouble happens, and also a way to Midland where I can stay overnight at a friend's place, and possibly ride all the way back to TO (or to the edges, there's very few safe and desirable ways in the last 20 km or so).

The gravel was so awful on that stretch of the Oro-Medonte section that I had to walk, it was so unstable to ride on, even with 28c tires and a very stable machine. North of that section, it was wonderful. The stretch from Orillia to Barrie became monotonous save for a few flashes of spectacular scenery. I was dropped off by the 400 near Waubaushene. Next time I'll do Midland and take the bus back, and then as the season progresses, do Midland south. I've Google-Viewed the route, (using intersecting roads to view it) and it looks like crushed limestone most if not all the way. Even dirt paths are far superior to large sharp crushed stones.

See: https://www.simcoe.ca/InformationTechnology/Pages/TrailMaps.aspx

And this site even makes an offer to send you a printed map!
https://cyclesimcoe.ca/ (I'm old-school)

The entire loop:
https://cyclesimcoe.ca/explore/simcoe-county-loop-trail/

Just trying to find a comprehensive map of Barrie Transit. Grrrrr...it's like GO Transit, the last thing they make available to you is a map with all the routes on it. Even an automated checkout at a stupidmarket is more fun than "trip planners". Give me a freakin' map fer Crisakes and printed schedules!

Found a full pdf:
https://www.barrie.ca/Living/Getting Around/BarrieTransit/Documents/Barrie-Transit-Network-Map.pdf

And found a '90' route that looks very good for avoiding arterial roads back into Barrie from the bottom of the trail:

https://www.barrie.ca/Living/Getting Around/BarrieTransit/Documents/Route_90_Brochure.pdf

And lo and behold! It connects directly to Allandale!

Will study this more later to see what else connects from/to Allandale, and what is needed to connect from Allandale to the Midland route. All of this should be published by Metrolinx, but I digress...

 

[lenaitch]

I was studying the maps closely last night. It's actually three trails in name (the same old RoW almost the whole distance) that connect end-on-end going down the western side of the loop from Midland. It doesn't take you all the way to Barrie, I'm a bit concerned about getting stuck on arterial roads, got to find some back roads to do it, but those bus routes offer an opportune way as an emergency back-up if trouble happens, and also a way to Midland where I can stay overnight at a friend's place, and possibly ride all the way back to TO (or to the edges, there's very few safe and desirable ways in the last 20 km or so).

The gravel was so awful on that stretch of the Oro-Medonte section that I had to walk, it was so unstable to ride on, even with 28c tires and a very stable machine. North of that section, it was wonderful. The stretch from Orillia to Barrie became monotonous save for a few flashes of spectacular scenery. I was dropped off by the 400 near Waubaushene. Next time I'll do Midland and take the bus back, and then as the season progresses, do Midland south. I've Google-Viewed the route, (using intersecting roads to view it) and it looks like crushed limestone most if not all the way. Even dirt paths are far superior to large sharp crushed stones.

See: https://www.simcoe.ca/InformationTechnology/Pages/TrailMaps.aspx

And this site even makes an offer to send you a printed map!
https://cyclesimcoe.ca/ (I'm old-school)

The entire loop:
https://cyclesimcoe.ca/explore/simcoe-county-loop-trail/

Just trying to find a comprehensive map of Barrie Transit. Grrrrr...it's like GO Transit, the last thing they make available to you is a map with all the routes on it. Even an automated checkout at a stupidmarket is more fun than "trip planners". Give me a freakin' map fer Crisakes and printed schedules!

Found a full pdf:
https://www.barrie.ca/Living/Getting Around/BarrieTransit/Documents/Barrie-Transit-Network-Map.pdf

And found a '90' route that looks very good for avoiding arterial roads back into Barrie from the bottom of the trail:
View attachment 168603

https://www.barrie.ca/Living/Getting Around/BarrieTransit/Documents/Route_90_Brochure.pdf

And lo and behold! It connects directly to Allandale!

Will study this more later to see what else connects from/to Allandale, and what is needed to connect from Allandale to the Midland route. All of this should be published by Metrolinx, but I digress...

Good luck with your route planning. From memory, it seems you'll have to find your way from the Line 5/6 area to the nearest stop. I don't know how far south the old ROW has been maintained as a trail. County Rd. 90 I imagine would not be a fun bike route.

It makes one wonder sometimes who writes these things. "Hwy 90" hasn't been Hwy 90 for several years, and "Hwy 10" and "Hwy 56" never have been; they're county roads. It may seem pedantic but there actually is a Hwy 10 much farther west.

Too bad about the gravel; I know the township that part of the trail goes through is not rolling in dough and only goes through one of its small communities, so perhaps it is good that it wasn't left to go back to nature.

 

[steveintoronto]

Too bad about the gravel; I know the township that part of the trail goes through is not rolling in dough and only goes through one of its small communities, so perhaps it is good that it wasn't left to go back to nature.

In all fairness to the township, they're not the only ones to have done this. The Cottontail Trail is similar. There's a problem not just with the local authority, it's also with Trans-Canada Trails, who fund these to the tune of (50%? IIRC) and the grant may also be matched by a federal plan...but *there's no oversight*! I was just going to link to the Cottontail Trail, with only my word to make my case, and lo and behold, here's a Youtube vid:

It's two years old, my first encounter with that trail was when the large gravel went down about five years ago. Impossible to cycle with stability, let alone high likelihood of a flat, even with Kevlar protected 28c tires. It looks like the stone is starting to sink into the clay somewhat in spots, but I always cycle through that alignment on an adjacent back road, paved, to connect the Elora Trail (which is exquisite to this day, albeit needs some TLC) to the Kissing Bridge Trail (ditto, albeit some sections continue in good shape, others not).

The bottom line is that the Cottontail Trail was far better when it was just a dirt track along the abandoned road RoW. I traced funding on the gravel some years back, and it's more for the local farmers to access their fields than for the benefit of hikers/cyclists. For Oro-Medonte, the emphasis is on Skidoo RoW. It's an absolute shame, and possibly misappropriation of funding. Or worse...

On the other hand, some trails are very well taken care of, with exactly the right grade of crushed limestone, some with a polymer binding in it. The Caledon Trailway in many sections is exactly that, very fast, stable and an absolute joy. How bad is some of the other gravel sections on other trails? You couldn't even use a motorbike on them safely, it's that loose and unpredictable. And if you go down...you're going to be damaged.

To tie this back to the topic surmise, The Kissing Bridge Trail can be accessed with a thirty minute ride from the 29 bus terminal in Guelph (Guelph is working on a connecting bike path to improve that) or the 25 bus in K/W and take two GRT buses, the latter the Elmira one which connects almost right to the trail at its northern end. There's quite a few very good trails that GO brings you close to, but not quite there. The Cambridge to Hamilton one is accessible by GO and local connections in a number of spots.

One of these days I should compile a webpage on how to do it since Metrolinx and the Ont Min of Tourism seem unable to. Oddly, the one train GO does 'host'...to Niagara Falls, is one of the most stranded destinations! I guess it's good for those that need a cloistered day out, but Uxbridge and Peterborough offer much more robust opportunities. Actually @ShonTron would be the man to approach QP and present the concept.

 

[ShonTron]

I was also looking at Google Maps recently, and it looks like Highway 90 is now mostly four-laned and with paved shoulders. I think Tiffin Road to 90 is probably ok these days - it's more of a question then how to get up from 90 to the NS trail.

I wonder how much longer the snowmobile clubs will be able to use the trails in this part of Ontario -- climate change isn't helping. My fear is that they'll go to ATVs instead (look at the old CP Chalk River Sub, which is becoming an ATV-friendly trail, rather than an active transportation trail), which wreck the trails and are unpleasant to share with pedal cyclists and hikers.

 

[steveintoronto]

My fear is that they'll go to ATVs instead

I see a lot of evidence of this on the Peterborough to Uxbridge Trail, ATV and dirt motorbikes, and seeing it increasingly on others, especially around Brantford on the Cambridge to Brantford stretch south of Paris. The ruts they leave are extremely dangerous for cyclists, along with the washed out clay, and loose gravel left from the crushed limestone's clay/binding being washed away. The Sunderland leg is especially bad for it.

Here's the thing though...I'm constantly alarmed at how few cyclists use the railtrails when outside of the vicinity of urban centres. I can go for 20km on the Peterborough to Uxbridge one without seeing a single cyclist! I feel somewhat reassured to see people walking their dogs in some sections. You don't want these trails overused, but you do want them used enough to justify the cost of upkeep, policing and *safety*! I'm an iPhone Luddite, but to not have a cell-phone on some of these trails is to taunt death in some instances.

Metrolinx and QP have an onus on them to promote their use. Whenever I tell people (beyond my own limited travelling companions) about these, people are ecstatic. They want to do them! I'm flummoxed though in explaining how to GO there, albeit that's how I do it 90% of the time.

If you can walk all day, then on a good machine, you can cycle all day, and on incredible trails with stupendous scenery, for dirt cheap. And learn a lot about history and earlier culture.

It's an absolute no-brainer for the Province (like Quebec and many US States) to promote these. Ontario has left a patch-work of County and Township administration of them, and doing a piss-poor job promoting them.

 

[Northern Light]

I see a lot of evidence of this on the Peterborough to Uxbridge Trail, ATV and dirt motorbikes, and seeing it increasingly on others, especially around Brantford on the Cambridge to Brantford stretch south of Paris. The ruts they leave are extremely dangerous for cyclists, along with the washed out clay, and loose gravel left from the crushed limestone's clay/binding being washed away. The Sunderland leg is especially bad for it.

Here's the thing though...I'm constantly alarmed at how few cyclists use the railtrails when outside of the vicinity of urban centres. I can go for 20km on the Peterborough to Uxbridge one without seeing a single cyclist! I feel somewhat reassured to see people walking their dogs in some sections. You don't want these trails overused, but you do want them used enough to justify the cost of upkeep, policing and *safety*! I'm an iPhone Luddite, but to not have a cell-phone on some of these trails is to taunt death in some instances.

Metrolinx and QP have an onus on them to promote their use. Whenever I tell people (beyond my own limited travelling companions) about these, people are ecstatic. They want to do them! I'm flummoxed though in explaining how to GO there, albeit that's how I do it 90% of the time.

If you can walk all day, then on a good machine, you can cycle all day, and on incredible trails with stupendous scenery, for dirt cheap. And learn a lot about history and earlier culture.

It's an absolute no-brainer for the Province (like Quebec and many US States) to promote these. Ontario has left a patch-work of County and Township administration of them, and doing a piss-poor job promoting them.

I don't know why we don't just poach people in other jurisdictions who do this well, or even pay that department/ministry to do for us what it achieved in its own jurisdiction.

 

[steveintoronto]

I don't know why we don't just poach people in other jurisdictions who do this well, or even pay that department/ministry to do for us what it achieved in its own jurisdiction.

I know there's still some excellent trails to do in Ontario, but one struggles to find the routes in map form to connect them all together.

So my glance now is toward the Erie Canal Trail in New York. Metrolinx put all their apples into the Niagara Train, and that;s good, but not good enough. There's a whole lot more that could be done. If the timing was better (it's in the evening) I'd be very interested in doing the Muskoka(?) train GO is doing with Ontario Northland.

 

[dowlingm]

I saw a F59 L6 turning north onto the Richmond Hill from the USRC today at 1.20ish - is that normal for early afternoon northbound service or just GO adjusting for Christmas Eve demand?

 

[reaperexpress]

I saw a F59 L6 turning north onto the Richmond Hill from the USRC today at 1.20ish - is that normal for early afternoon northbound service or just GO adjusting for Christmas Eve demand?

On Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve GO runs what it calls an "early homebound" schedule to accommodate people leaving work early. The train you saw was the 13:10 northbound to Gormley:

Unfortunately their new website has done away with the ability to display timetables for any given day - the only timetables on the website are the pdf versions which don't include holiday or special events schedules. To figure out a holiday timetable you need to spam the trip planner with a bunch of different origin-destination pairs. I emailed GO about this when the website first came out and they just gave a standard non-response about "improving accessibility".

 

[steveintoronto]

Unfortunately their new website has done away with the ability to display timetables for any given day - the only timetables on the website are the pdf versions which don't include holiday or special events schedules. To figure out a holiday timetable you need to spam the trip planner with a bunch of different origin-destination pairs. I emailed GO about this when the website first came out and they just gave a standard non-response about "improving accessibility".

Interesting and serendipity you should post that! I had a hell of a time earlier today trying to figure out the best place to be picked up by a lift starting in Dundas to get us both to Guelph (Ostensibly up Hwy 6). I was headed to Aldershot, Main and Longwood or Hamilton GO station as options to be picked up from.

After initially struggling with juggling the pdfs for both the train/bus and the Hamilton Express bus as to which would be best, in exasperation I tried the 'Trip Planner'....which I've *never* had success with. It could route you via the Moon and I'd not be surprised.

In the end, considering all the possibilities that could go wrong being picked up at the mentioned options (the driver is a great guy, friend's dad, but in his eighties, so it was more than a lift for me, it was a co-pilot for him).

The least bad option chosen was the correct one, coming and going, and that's Aldershot, far less to go wrong in all respects, and a plus for the driver, as going, we took the scenic route to the east side of Guelph, up through Waterdown then Centre Rd to Victoria Rd into Guelph at a sightseeing speed instead of the loathsome and dangerous Hwy 6 . And saved on mileage doing it that way too.

Here's the point: By GO bending over backwards to accommodate those who haven't a clue of how to use a schedule, a 'dumb' (for all those with smartphones) way to cater to the mindless masses not only strands those using the pdfs (which is where I finally found my answer), but the 'timetables' are now buried through a circuitous route on the website stymieing 'old school' route and time planning and offering a 'Trip Planner' that's pretty trippy alright. It refused to accept "Main and Longwood" in "destination" and would only show the 16 Express bus from Union to Hamilton depot. Absolutely no indication of train and 18 bus shuttle from Aldershot and Hamilton.

"Convenient Labour Saving Device" my ass...

From the same brilliant minds that don't even post timetables at important hubs anymore. Batteries not included...(Some mental assembly required)

 

[Fritter]

From the same brilliant minds that don't even post timetables at important hubs anymore. Batteries not included...(Some mental assembly required)

As a GO employee, I can tell you there is a big push on right now for "Self service", putting more emphasis on Ticket vending machines and web based information and wayfinding and less dependence on Station attendants.

 

[steveintoronto]

As a GO employee, I can tell you there is a big push on right now for "Self service", putting more emphasis on Ticket vending machines and web based information and wayfinding and less dependence on Station attendants.

This had nothing to do with attendants. It was all on the web.

After initially struggling with juggling the pdfs for both the train/bus and the Hamilton Express bus as to which would be best, in exasperation I tried the 'Trip Planner'....which I've *never* had success with. It could route you via the Moon and I'd not be surprised.

And at hubs, it's the ones *without attendants* that most badly need to post timetables. Or supply a 'help phone' like *many* other jurisdictions do.

The presumption is that everyone has an iPhone that is able to put up two, maybe three schedules on a screen (good luck with that) to see which bus is coming first, and as at, say Aberfoyle, time to run over to the field to relieve yourself, or to run across the highway to grab a coffee. Even at Aberfoyle, you have the choice of three buses going in each direction.

But do they stick up timetables? Duh....they used to.

https://leep.ngo/digital-exclusion-waiting-for-the-bus/

I have a cell phone, I don't have a smart phone, and even if I did, why should the onus be on me to do what an operator can do at *intersecting hubs* fer Crisakes. It's not just me that finds this extremely irritating. So OK, I have a smartphone, go to the website, and then get royally screwed around as I described above, such that the only way of figuring it out was via the pdfs, which are literally 'hidden at the back' of the GOtransit.com website.

Here's a brilliant solution: Post the timetables at intersecting hubs.