[Northern Light]

Given from the Town Hall and Recent Board Meeting we are supposed to see a 15% train service increase in September I'm curious to hear what people think that will be?

1) Don't think Barrie can see significantly more service than it has now without more double tracking done.
2) Stouffville unlikely to see much extra service until the current construction is done, they utilize the nights and weekends for construction.

Given the LS Lines are mostly as well served as I ever expect them to be before RER or GO Expansion or whatever is implemented the only other thing that could hit that 15% increase target would be a two way all day service on Kitchener. That makes sense in my mind given Verster and Co have been saying that a major increase / exciting announcement RE Kitchener would be coming for a while now.

My guess for September is 30 minute 2WAD to Bramalea (maybe some additional trips to Kitchener too) and maybe a few extra trips per week on all the other lines.

All plausible.

But extending hourly service on LSW to Hamilton should be in the offing soon, one would hope.

15M service on LSW/LSE is only between the rush hours right now, so extending that to evenings or weekends is also plausible.

 

[crs1026]

^CN is expected to begin testing corrected signalling installations in the Bayview-Hamilton section next weekend, which may lead to finally putting some of the track built since 2014 into service. This has only limited value until the interlocking at Hamilton Jct is rebuilt.....absolutely no sign of any forward motion on that front. There’s a whole lot of expensive new track and bridgework that has sat idle for years down there.

I’m told there is now a firm plan to temporarily widen the north platform at West Harbour so that the Niagara GO train can make its stop on the main line without backing into the station. That is likely also the plan at Confederation when it opens, as extending the new track onwards from West Harbour is a long ways off. Of course, having a mainline platform at West Harbour pretty much makes the rest of the station unnecessary.... a real white elephant.... but it’s progress of a sort.

I have also been told that ML intended to add more service earlier this year, but CN felt they just weren’t ready. All routes are to get evening and weekend service as soon as possible. Contractor on the Stouffville project had asked for deferral so they could make use of nights and weekends to get things done....ML looked at whether evening work was actually being mobilised and concluded there was no real impact.

- Paul

 

[Jonny5]

A shopping cart?!?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1144557311991734272

Could be worse

 

[Allandale25]

^CN is expected to begin testing corrected signalling installations in the Bayview-Hamilton section next weekend, which may lead to finally putting some of the track built since 2014 into service. This has only limited value until the interlocking at Hamilton Jct is rebuilt.....absolutely no sign of any forward motion on that front. There’s a whole lot of expensive new track and bridgework that has sat idle for years down there.

I’m told there is now a firm plan to temporarily widen the north platform at West Harbour so that the Niagara GO train can make its stop on the main line without backing into the station. That is likely also the plan at Confederation when it opens, as extending the new track onwards from West Harbour is a long ways off. Of course, having a mainline platform at West Harbour pretty much makes the rest of the station unnecessary.... a real white elephant.... but it’s progress of a sort.

I have also been told that ML intended to add more service earlier this year, but CN felt they just weren’t ready. All routes are to get evening and weekend service as soon as possible. Contractor on the Stouffville project had asked for deferral so they could make use of nights and weekends to get things done....ML looked at whether evening work was actually being mobilised and concluded there was no real impact.

- Paul

Helpful update.

 

[dowlingm]

I’m told there is now a firm plan to temporarily widen the north platform at West Harbour so that the Niagara GO train can make its stop on the main line without backing into the station. That is likely also the plan at Confederation when it opens, as extending the new track onwards from West Harbour is a long ways off. Of course, having a mainline platform at West Harbour pretty much makes the rest of the station unnecessary.... a real white elephant.... but it’s progress of a sort

not sure I would agree with the premise that WH is a white elephant, especially for what you describe as a temporary arrangement - assumes no future WH terminal trains, no advantage to pulling off the mainline if congestion at Bayview requires a long hold.

The question for me is whether the routing of Maple Leaf through Hamilton uses that track both ways and thus whether a stop might be contemplated during this “temporary” arrangement if there was any chance it might be made permanent.

 

[nfitz]

not sure I would agree with the premise that WH is a white elephant, especially for what you describe as a temporary arrangement - assumes no future WH terminal trains, no advantage to pulling off the mainline if congestion at Bayview requires a long hold.

It's a white elephant right now, and I don't see that this makes it much less of one.

The latest ridership data says that after 4 years of operation West Harbour GO had only 66 riders a day for April - which is in improvement over the 57 a day reported in January. That's 33 a train. Compare to 1,300 a day reported for Hamilton GO - about 325 a train. I suppose that's better than the 14 riders a day reported for St. Catharines GO and 9 riders a day reported for Niagara Falls GO - but those stations used existing facilities, and cost a pittance.

But $44 million for 66 riders? That's about $675,000 a rider! I'm not convinced that running a shuttle bus to Aldershot wouldn't be not only a lot cheaper, but you could run it every 30 minutes and still be a lot cheaper ... and probably have much higher ridership. If that's not a white elephant, I don't know what is.

They could simply have built an asphalt platform, along the existing track for that price. For $44 million, they should have at least connected the track back at the other end, to allow for through service!

 

[crs1026]

This is all super good info, may I ask your source? Assuming you know someone at Metrolinx?

Don’t assume that the information came from a ML employee. The food chain is broader than that.

For obvious reasons, I’m not going to elaborate. If you feel I don’t have good information from time to time, just press delete.

So you're suggesting the Stouffville Line would see additional evening service on weekdays but, no weekend service correct?

No, the info I was given suggests that both night and weekend service could happen this year.

- Paul

 

[canarob]

Wonderful news! Also, on Stouffville it was more than just deferring new service; there were I believe 3 runs (20:40, 21:30 and 22:40ish, IIRC) that have been cancelled for the last year or so. I'm glad that ML actually looked into whether any work was being done after 20:00 (most here were pretty skeptical!).

 

[smallspy]

Going to follow this up because I'm ignorant to it, can they really offer weekend service on Stouffville when there is so much construction ongoing?

It depends on where the construction is going on. If most of the construction is on the tracks themselves, well, that would complicate things. But if the work is on the right-of-way rather than the track, than it shouldn't be too difficult.

Consider also that they are currently running mid-day service, and the construction has continued unabated.

Dan

 

[robmausser]

Thats true, though thats because as I assumed all the construction was happening at night.

I'd also say 70-80% of the corridor doesn't have double track yet so a lot of trackwork is left.

Do you mean 80% of the entire corridor, or the junction to unionville?

Because there is no plans to double track north of unionville afaik and I really think all we will ever see there is some passing tracks to Mount Joy. North of Mount Joy it will probably always be single tack.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Do you mean 80% of the entire corridor, or the junction to unionville?

Because there is no plans to double track north of unionville afaik and I really think all we will ever see there is some passing tracks to Mount Joy. North of Mount Joy it will probably always be single tack.

They should double track to Mount Joy. Those stations will require a second platform at some point in time.

 

[innsertnamehere]

It's a white elephant right now, and I don't see that this makes it much less of one.

The latest ridership data says that after 4 years of operation West Harbour GO had only 66 riders a day for April - which is in improvement over the 57 a day reported in January. That's 33 a train. Compare to 1,300 a day reported for Hamilton GO - about 325 a train. I suppose that's better than the 14 riders a day reported for St. Catharines GO and 9 riders a day reported for Niagara Falls GO - but those stations used existing facilities, and cost a pittance.

But $44 million for 66 riders? That's about $675,000 a rider! I'm not convinced that running a shuttle bus to Aldershot wouldn't be not only a lot cheaper, but you could run it every 30 minutes and still be a lot cheaper ... and probably have much higher ridership. If that's not a white elephant, I don't know what is.

They could simply have built an asphalt platform, along the existing track for that price. For $44 million, they should have at least connected the track back at the other end, to allow for through service!

The station is built with the future in mind, but it indeed may have been a bit premature. Until Metrolinx has spent another couple hundred million in track upgrades to get regular service through the station and onwards towards Stoney Creek and Niagara, the station will sit underused.

 

[smallspy]

Thats true, though thats because as I assumed all the construction was happening at night.

Much of the work is happening during the day. There are noise restrictions that they need to hold to.

I'd also say 70-80% of the corridor doesn't have double track yet so a lot of trackwork is left.

The trackwork that is left to be installed is the second mainline - the first one has already been largely completed down to Kennedy, save for the bridges over Highland Creek. Installing the second main should be relatively painless by comparison to the amount of work that's already been accomplished.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

The station is built with the future in mind, but it indeed may have been a bit premature. Until Metrolinx has spent another couple hundred million in track upgrades to get regular service through the station and onwards towards Stoney Creek and Niagara, the station will sit underused.

What's surprising is how little the two trains a day are currently unused, while the 4-trains a day at nearby Hamilton GO are very well used. Presumably additional transit connections, would help. Perhaps a large parking lot.

At some point it might not be a white elephant. But gosh - how much do they pay simplying for maintaining and operating that facility currently, between the HVAC, elevators, and staff? How do you justify any staffing for 66 people a day ... let alone public washrooms and heated shelters! The quiet streetcar stop by my house sees more than that in a day ... or even an hour in rush hour.

 

[crs1026]

What's surprising is how little the two trains a day are currently unused, while the 4-trains a day at nearby Hamilton GO are very well used. Presumably additional transit connections, would help. Perhaps a large parking lot.

At some point it might not be a white elephant. But gosh - how much do they pay simplying for maintaining and operating that facility currently, between the HVAC, elevators, and staff?

I wonder how many people transfer from bus to the trains at Hunter St. There isn’t that much parking there, either. West Harbour has virtually no connecting transit.

West Harbour was a Wynne vanity project.... Pan Am games and all that. There ought to be a very robust market for transit along the QEW corridor, but GO has never really seized on that. And while it makes sense for there to be a modest stop at West Harbour if a QEW GO emerges, it need not be the central hub for Hamilton GO..... just a lesser platform. I bet LIUNA would have been willing to partner at the old depot for the right fee..... pay LIUNA $25M in rent as opposed to investing $50 M in something new.

- Paul

- Paul