[reaperexpress]

Yes, part of the original mainline does still exist at Burlington Station.

And yes, there are plans afoot to connect it to the rest of the mainline tracks at the plant at Burlington East, a mile east of the station.

But none of that has been done yet, and won't be done in time for the schedule change this coming weekend.

My 6 tph schedule was indeed a further-down-the-road notion. I was just pointing out that it is possible to run 2 tph express in addition to 4 tph local, without the expresses needing to zig-zag in and out of the centre track.

As far as the current schedule, I was suggesting a 4 tph pattern, with 3 tph local and 1 tph express:

This timetable is exactly the same as the current schedule except that trains depart Hamilton 10 minutes later. At Oakville there is a convenient 5-minute transfer for people accessing the local stations between Oakville and Union.

Agreed @reaperexpress always comes with great demonstrations.

I think London to Union on GO is too far. The trains are not comfortable. I mean if you do this you have to Kingston and Peterborough.

The distance from London to Union is irrelevant. People travelling between those stations would continue to travel via Brantford regardless of GO service on the north mainline. The point is to connect London-Kitchener, Toronto-Stratford, London-Pearson, Stratford-Guelph, etc. With the sole exception of London-Pearson, those distances are pretty modest, especially since trains would be making minimal stops west of Kitchener.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Hamilton, London, and K-W should be a nice profitable little trio of centres for VIA/GO

 

[reaperexpress]

Hamilton, London, and K-W should be a nice profitable little trio of centres for VIA/GO

There's definitely a bunch of potential there, but still several issues need to be addressed before they can really be successful.

Kitchener's current station has horrible access by foot, bike and transit, so its potential as a destination is pretty limited. To access the station by foot from the northwest, I used to climb up the side of a grassy hill, push through some bushes, jump a guardrail and walk aross the parking lot, since the only official pedestrian route heads to the southeast.

Also note the desire line toward the intersection, since there's no direct pedestrian path from the station toward downtown Kitchener.

The new Kitchener Central Station will massively improve access by foot, bike and transit, making it a much more viable destination, assuming they ever get around to actually building it.

Hamilton Centre station has a great location and very good connections, but is of course limited by CP's track capacity. Still, the last train (pre-covid) departed at 07:18, so it should be possible to have some commuter trains arriving at 07:45, 08:15 and 08:45, which then spend the day at the yard there rather than spending the midday at Bathurst or Willowbrook yards.

London station has a fairly good location, but not great connections. It could really use an integrated bus terminal, like the one Guelph built in 2012.

Guelph Station probably deserves an honourable mention, since its station access is already quite good and the area around the station is quite pedestrian-friendly (in contrast to downtown London which seems to consist mostly of parking lots). Demand to Guelph would be a nice little bonus on top of demand to Kitchener.

 

[timio]

View attachment 339246
Also note the desire line toward the intersection, since there's no direct pedestrian path from the station toward downtown Kitchener.

A few years ago, I was running along this path to catch a train with the ridiculously short connection time provided by GRT (4 minutes if the stars aligned, typically much less) and ripped my jeans jumping the barrier in the parking lot. Not a great experience overall.

 

[reaperexpress]

A few years ago, I was running along this path to catch a train with the ridiculously short connection time provided by GRT (4 minutes if the stars aligned, typically much less) and ripped my jeans jumping the barrier in the parking lot. Not a great experience overall.

That reminds me of the time I tried to take the bus to the Home Depot next to Richmond Hill Centre / Langstaff Station. Turns out they built a fence all the way around the Home Depot parking lot to prevent people from walking between it and RHC or Langstaff stations (fence outlined in red below):

So I jumped the fence both ways, and on the way back I cut my leg. So I got on the Viva bus with a leg bleeding, and I asked the driver if he had a tissue or something, but he didn't, and I think the best he had on hand was a piece of paper or something. So that's what I used to try to clean up a bit on the ride home.

 

[lenaitch]

That reminds me of the time I tried to take the bus to the Home Depot next to Richmond Hill Centre / Langstaff Station. Turns out they built a fence all the way around the Home Depot parking lot to prevent people from walking between it and RHC or Langstaff stations (fence outlined in red below):
View attachment 339320

So I jumped the fence both ways, and on the way back I cut my leg. So I got on the Viva bus with a leg bleeding, and I asked the driver if he had a tissue or something, but he didn't, and I think the best he had on hand was a piece of paper or something. So that's what I used to try to clean up a bit on the ride home.

I was initially surprised that the bus didn't have a first aid kit, but it seems that 'urban or suburban route' buses are exempt.

 

[robmausser]

That reminds me of the time I tried to take the bus to the Home Depot next to Richmond Hill Centre / Langstaff Station. Turns out they built a fence all the way around the Home Depot parking lot to prevent people from walking between it and RHC or Langstaff stations (fence outlined in red below):
View attachment 339320

So I jumped the fence both ways, and on the way back I cut my leg. So I got on the Viva bus with a leg bleeding, and I asked the driver if he had a tissue or something, but he didn't, and I think the best he had on hand was a piece of paper or something. So that's what I used to try to clean up a bit on the ride home.

It makes my blood boil stuff like this. I'm sorry that you hurt yourself on what is a stupid unnecessary fence. The suburbs are full of stuff like this, even when im driving the amount of medians that are a barrier to turning left out of parking lots, and even medians in parking lots themselves.

 

[reaperexpress]

It makes my blood boil stuff like this. I'm sorry that you hurt yourself on what is a stupid unnecessary fence. The suburbs are full of stuff like this, even when im driving the amount of medians that are a barrier to turning left out of parking lots, and even medians in parking lots themselves.

I guess it serves me right for trying to access a business in York Region using public transit. /s

Medians banning left turns out of parking lots do have a measureable safety benefit by reducing chaotic movements across busy arterial roads. This fence does not improve safety in any way. It was erected to prevent people using the Home Depot lot as an extension of the RHC and Langstaff park-and-ride lots. But they also could have addressed that concern in a way which doesn't physically prevent people from accessing their store using public transit. Putting a 1 hour limit on parking also would have worked, since hardly any park-and-riders would be back within an hour. Or two hours. Image recognition cameras are easily cheap and reliable to monitor the parking lot automatically, and identify the cars which have sat there all day.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I guess it serves me right for trying to access a business in York Region using public transit. /s

Medians banning left turns out of parking lots do have a measureable safety benefit by reducing chaotic movements across busy arterial roads. This fence does not improve safety in any way. It was erected to prevent people using the Home Depot lot as an extension of the RHC and Langstaff park-and-ride lots. But they also could have addressed that concern in a way which doesn't physically prevent people from accessing their store using public transit. Putting a 1 hour limit on parking also would have worked, since hardly any park-and-riders would be back within an hour. Or two hours. Image recognition cameras are easily cheap and reliable to monitor the parking lot automatically, and identify the cars which have sat there all day.

That continues with fences between parking lots or big box store entrances. They want to discourage people parking their vehicles or using public transit to walk from one store to another. They want they only to use their parking lot for their store, and only their store. They end up forcing the customers to drive from one store to another, else you'll get towed.

From link.

Wonder how many got tickets or towed when they parked at a store parking lot, when they went next door for a COVID-19 vaccine, because of the crowded parking lot at the site?

 

[lenaitch]

I guess it serves me right for trying to access a business in York Region using public transit. /s

Medians banning left turns out of parking lots do have a measureable safety benefit by reducing chaotic movements across busy arterial roads. This fence does not improve safety in any way. It was erected to prevent people using the Home Depot lot as an extension of the RHC and Langstaff park-and-ride lots. But they also could have addressed that concern in a way which doesn't physically prevent people from accessing their store using public transit. Putting a 1 hour limit on parking also would have worked, since hardly any park-and-riders would be back within an hour. Or two hours. Image recognition cameras are easily cheap and reliable to monitor the parking lot automatically, and identify the cars which have sat there all day.

Well. . . it is private property.

 

[reaperexpress]

Well. . . it is private property.

So we should be okay with businesses who actively exclude people who can't afford cars?

 

[lenaitch]

So we should be okay with businesses who actively exclude people who can't afford cars?

It's their property and business to operate as they see fit, within legislation. They own the taxes, construction/maintenance costs, liability, etc. If you live near a subway stop, is your driveway fair game? If the presence of a private parking lot near a transit hub is that publicly important, I'm sure they'd be willing to lease part of it.

 

[Undead]

So we should be okay with businesses who actively exclude people who can't afford cars?

I was with you until that ridiculous strawman.

 

[reaperexpress]

It's their property and business to operate as they see fit, within legislation. They own the taxes, construction/maintenance costs, liability, etc. If you live near a subway stop, is your driveway fair game? If the presence of a private parking lot near a transit hub is that publicly important, I'm sure they'd be willing to lease part of it.

The locations at which a private property is accessed from the public right-of-way is within the jurisdiction of municipalities. It's one of the common areas of disccusion for new planning applications. It's less common to adjust property access after a building is already built, but it is certainly possible. For example, the city may require a driveway to be relocated or even permanently closed as part of a road reconstruction project.

I never suggested that they should allow people to use their parking lot for public transit purposes, in fact I suggested ways of preventing such use.

 

[reaperexpress]

I was with you until that ridiculous strawman.

I suppose it was a bit dramatically worded. Such emotional wording probably cames from how demeaning that incident was. I grew up in Thornhill, and in general getting around by bus was perfectly decent. Certainly not always convenient, but always civilized. There was no noticeable stigma against taking the bus, and there were generally paved and direct walking paths to and from bus stops. Taking the bus always seemed like a normal or reasonable thing to do. But that incident was the first time I felt like taking the bus to the shops was morally wrong, given the barriers that had been deliberately erected to prevent it. Never before had I felt like a criminal just for taking public transit.

In more specific words, I should have said: "Planning applications for new developments should not be approved until they provide a reasonable access to the property for people using public transit, and certainly not access which is orders of magnitude less convenient than by car". To be clear, the blame here falls on the Town of Richmond Hill.