Reecemartin
Active Member
My take on the announcement yesterday from the federal government.
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
crs1026
Superstar
^Lots of good ideas and insights. Just don't let your enthusiasm get in the way of understanding how little forward ground was actually gained by yesterday's announcement.
A major constraint on the capacity of the Galt Sub, even without any track addition, is the number and location of level crossings through Mississauga and Halton. While it would appear that CP has more than enough capacity to absorb more GO trains, any operating pattern that involves meeting or passing freight trains is highly constrained. There are just enough busy level crossings that it's very difficult to find a place for a freight train to slow or hold without blocking road traffic. That's likely why CP may be so reluctant to allow any bidirectional service....they need an assured through route to keep freights moving. Grade separations are as important as the track itself on this line, maybe more,
CP has accepted close headways for those 10-11 unidirectional trains (including the impact on the crossing of these trains from north to south en route) so they have definitely cooperated with GO to get as much value as possible out of the existing line. But they aren't a charity and can only take so much of a hit for commuters.
A second constraint is the location of major river crossings - which in combination with the grade separation drives up the cost of adding track significantly.
I disagree that getting to hourly 2WAD would be a big enough step forward to be worthwhile. That's because the competing routes (the ones people use today, due to there being no 2WAD on the Milton line) are likely to retain riders who experience/anticipate/fear a 45 minute wait for the next hourly train. Getting service to 30 minutes or better has to be a goal from the beginning. Spending $x00M to get hourly service may be poor use of capital whereas spending more to get more frequent headways is a very compelling proposition.
It's all doable with money - we just need to realise that both Ontario and Ottawa have other major expenses under way and not everything can happen at once. As important as the Milton line is, given its high cost, had it been included in GO Expansion's first wave, some other things would have been left out. Having spent $1.5B on Georgetown South it's understandable that other parts of the GTA are getting the focus in the current expansion program.
I don't get very excited about Ministerial announcements of what we might do in another decade. My kids may get to ride 2WAD to Milton, but at best I may be bringing my walker.
- Paul
ARG1
Senior Member
I agree with most of this post, except the part about the need for more than hourly service. Its important to remember that when you have headways beyond 15 minutes, nobody just shows up to a train station whenever and waits for the next train, hoping that its not an hour away. People carefully plan around how they're going to get from Point A to Point B, and many circumstances it can be quite reasonable to have to delay the start time of your trip in order to catch a train that gets you to where you need to go much faster. Looking at the Milton Corridor, while many that live in South-Eastern Mississauga would be able to easily reach LSE even if Milton is closer, for those who live elsewhere like in Streetsville or Erindale, it could require them to travel as much as an additional 8km to reach LSW, and require several additional bus transfers which can easily add 20+ minutes to your travel time. At this point many - especially those who live a 10 min walk to Milton would just pull up Google Maps - check when the next train is coming, and just leave 10-15 minutes before departure time, bonus points if there is a bus route that leads directly to the station cutting travel down to 3 mins.
Speaking personally, even though I live quite close to the Yonge Corridor and could easily catch frequent bus+subway services to get downtown, the hourly service on the Barrie Line has been of huge help to me ever since it opened simply because it allows me to reach downtown significantly faster than before, and having to plan my trip around the schedule really is only a minor setback, and I have no reason to doubt that the same can't apply to those living in Mississauga.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I know the August service changes just kicked in, but does anyone want to make any bets on the September service changes? More net new services? the re-introduction of express services on the Lake Shore lines? A GO train to London?
nfitz
Superstar
Northern Light
Superstar
Northern Light
Superstar
Some people don't see Twitter Previews here in UT (including me); and many choose not to click through.
So I took a screenshot and posted it, so everyone can see it w/o the need to click through.
nfitz
Superstar
I hadn't realised some browsers don't do it automatically!
If you do print screen it, you should link the image as well. Annoying when someone pastes a tweet, and then you can't look at responses easily.
11th
Senior Member
Not sure if I missed it in one of the pages here, but looks like potential GO service to London was mentioned back in early last year.
Garuda
Active Member
Decent Weekend service on the Kitchener Line is all I ask. I’m not expecting all day but say at least 2 trains from Kitchener in the morning and 2 back would be nice. Run hourly service to BramBefore the pandemic VIA would be sold out by Guelph and as there’s no standing room you’re SOL.
I’ve emailed Metrolinx and no response yet.
Good news is that the bridge rehabilitation over the Speed River is in full swing.
Northern Light
Superstar
Good catch; didn't occur to me to look further into that.
That said, I don't think that discounts the impending arrival of GO in London.
I think its about the details now, what level of service, initially, and how soon.
smallspy
Senior Member
I don't know when there will be an announcement, but.....
There are plans for more trains to shuttle back and forth from Kitchener to London in the coming weeks to train more operators.
Dan
crs1026
Superstar
^I sure hope that any announcement comes with a plan, timeline, and committed funding to fix the tracks.
Without that, it's not a very big step forward in terms of utility or cost-effectiveness.
- Paul
Without that, it's not a very big step forward in terms of utility or cost-effectiveness.
- Paul
innsertnamehere
Superstar
It will likely be much like the original Kitchener and Niagara extensions, get the service operating, even if on a substandard schedule, and start working towards upgrading tracks and improving travel times. For Kitchener's case it's taken a decade or so, but there are finally some substantial time savings occurring Times are 15 minutes better than at service initiation today, and will continue to drop.
robmausser
Senior Member
Even 15 minutes is huge because the sections they are fixing are abysmally slow. There is something just so soul crushing about crawling along a piece of track at 50kmh. Its like how its preferable to drive around a traffic jam even if it makes your commute 10 minutes longer. Something about stop and go/slow that just feels worse. The perception of motion has a psychological play at hand, like people think "oh this is a far trip but at least we are making good time!" even if a slower route would get you there faster.