[Northern Light]

In a word - yes.

Head office is pressing Alstom to be ready for a large round of sweeping changes (and mainly improvements) to service in September.

And yet, word on the ground is that they may have to be postponed until the new year - Alstom is having trouble staffing trains now as it is.

Dan

What seems to be the issue, Dan?

It is compensation related? Has there been a wave of retirements? (unexpected?); is there any workplace/working condition related issue driving dissatisfaction? Are more new hires not working out?

Just curious if you have any insights.

Typically I would have thought of these jobs as decent paying for someone w/o a University education.

 

[kalis0490]

So kitchener-guelph takes about 17 minutes on the go train, which means it takes ~34+4 minutes for a round trip (extra 4 minutes for getting off) It should be possible to have maybe an hourly 3 car train go kitchener-guelph round trip at off peak- weekend times. Such a service would be beneficial ( if I recall more trips occur between kitchener guelph than kitchener to any gta city)



@ARG1 when i used the kitchener service several weeks ago there were roughly 8+ people in each coach getting of at kitchener: assuming 8 cars, thats 64 people to kitchener just on 1 of 8 trains that day . It doesn't sound like much but pre covid kitchener had ~300 people using it per day. you are getting like 40% of that ridership on one train ( round trip) so it is very possible that ridership now is higher than precovid. Also Kitchener is a very poorly design station and often there's 100+ cars trying to get in at the same time so it is crowded .

 

[reaperexpress]

So kitchener-guelph takes about 17 minutes on the go train, which means it takes ~34+4 minutes for a round trip (extra 4 minutes for getting off) It should be possible to have maybe an hourly 3 car train go kitchener-guelph round trip at off peak- weekend times. Such a service would be beneficial ( if I recall more trips occur between kitchener guelph than kitchener to any gta city)

Your math is roughly correct, though you need to schedule a lot more than 2 minutes at each terminal. But that doesn't change the answer - it is indeed possible for a single train shuttling back and forth to provide hourly service between Kitchener and Guelph. However, there are two main problems:
- there is only one siding in that segment, located just east of Kitchener station, so it is difficult to acommodate the other trains which need to use the line (several GO trains, a VIA train and a CN train).
- there is construction ongoing on more sidings along the line (in Breslau and in Guelph), which would be inconvenienced by adding more trains.

Bottom line, although hourly all-day service between Kitchener and Guelph is technically possible, and definitely needed, it is probably wisest to wait a couple years for the new sidings to be completed. Once that happens, not only will there be hourly train service between Kitchener and Guelph, but that hourly service will also continue through to Toronto.

 

[smallspy]

What seems to be the issue, Dan?

It is compensation related? Has there been a wave of retirements? (unexpected?); is there any workplace/working condition related issue driving dissatisfaction? Are more new hires not working out?

Just curious if you have any insights.

Typically I would have thought of these jobs as decent paying for someone w/o a University education.

It seems to be a whole host of issues that have managed to come together. But part of the problem for me in analyzing it, as frequently happens, is separating the wheat from the chaff when it comes to the rumours.

For instance, one rumour I've heard is that they lost a lot of staff and crews due to the vaccine mandates. And yet, I've been told by people in head office that the actual number of employees (and contractors) lost due to non-acceptance of vaccines is something like 9.

One thing is that is certain is that Alstom has continued the trend of Bombardier by paying less than what VIA and the freight railways pay. Yes, there are very serious lifestyle advantages to working for GO over the other railways (always home every night, more consistent schedule, more room for upwards growth), but for those that are just looking for that filthy, filthy lucre the freight railways will always win.

Early on in the lockdown, Alstom was doing a pretty good job of managing to keep crews retained. Rather than laying people off, they were rotating them in and out of service (3 weeks on, 1 week off) to try and spread the pain. And from what I had heard, it was working quite well, and they lost very few people. But then they got lazy, and stopped the rotations about a year and a half ago. At that point, the writing was on the wall - senior guys pushed out more junior guys into crappier work or lower positions, the most junior were laid off and a lot of them went looking for other work to make ends meet.

It's not that Alstom hasn't been trying - they've hired about a dozen classes worth of CSAs so far this calendar year. But now the problem is that with the progression of the positions, the first of those CSAs won't be ready to move up to the head end for a full year after their starting dates.

Dan

 

[ARG1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1545087920918319104

 

[WB62]

I guess basically as fast as it would go? Would be the speed limit? (At the time).

I have a question about how the CSA controls the doors on the train, I see that in the accessibility coach there is a tablet that allows them to select which doors open and close. I guess it's either open or doors before or after the accessibility coach?

How did they do this in the old days when the conductor sat at the top?

Also does the CSA tell the engineer when the doors are closed and the train can depart?

Do you mean a literal tablet with a screen? Because that’s not how they control the doors; or is that some other way to say the physical control panel on the doors. Because they also had a control panel in the upper level on Series I-V coaches:

 

[Bordercollie]

Do you mean a literal tablet with a screen? Because that’s not how they control the doors; or is that some other way to say the physical control panel on the doors. Because they also had a control panel in the upper level on Series I-V coaches:View attachment 412172

Today the CSA has a tablet style device in the accessibility coach on the lower floor. They have a small desk there. The question I have is before those times how did they decide which doors open? I'm surprised that they kept those coms in place even though they are not used through the rebuild process.

 

[smallspy]

Today the CSA has a tablet style device in the accessibility coach on the lower floor. They have a small desk there. The question I have is before those times how did they decide which doors open? I'm surprised that they kept those coms in place even though they are not used through the rebuild process.

The tablet replaces the reams of paper that they had to use in their day-to-day operations. For instance, there used to be a 10+ page document that each CSA received before each shift to tell them about any potential issues during their day, such as platform problems or spotting locations.

Comms are used to communicate with the head end.

The tablet is not used to actually activate the operation of the doors. The control panels at the A-end doors of the accessible car are used, as that way the CSA can put out the accessible ramp and monitor all of the doors along the length of the train.

Dan

 

[dkt]

( if I recall more trips occur between kitchener guelph than kitchener to any gta city)

If this is true that makes it even more insane that GO offers absolutely no direct service between Kitchener and Guelph other than the limited weekday-only trains...

 

[Bordercollie]

If this is true that makes it even more insane that GO offers absolutely no direct service between Kitchener and Guelph other than the limited weekday-only trains...

Couldn't they just extend the Guelph bus to Kitchener?

 

[WB62]

The weekend day passes are great for enticing ridership back - but on weekends, the Lakeshore trains are packed, and they’re still running every half hour only. Given the reduced service, and the goodwill the passes provide (as long as you know about them) I think it’s worthwhile, at least until the fall. At that point, could hike it to $15 from $10.

Maybe there’s a case for a temporary weekday pass as well, where there’s likely more spare capacity than weekends these days.

Just like what was said above, the Lakeshore Trains usually aren’t that packed. I tend to walk through all 10 or 12 cars of each train because I enjoy doing it, the cars closest to the locomotive usually ranging from 1-4 are very quiet; and even on busy Niagara trains you will find them far emptier than you’d think.
I’ve only had one time where this wasn’t the case, and it was the very first Niagara train after the 6 month hiatus.

 

[anb]

This is really getting out of hand now...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1545566245377941505

 

[Bordercollie]

This is really getting out of hand now...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1545566245377941505

I don't see why that's a bad thing. Think about this for a second, if you drive that bus downtown and you spend 30min going and 30min comming back.

If every trip was delayed 30min the schedule would be out of wack or you would need at least one standby bus per departure for those routes.

That's 3-6 extra buses, and operators. Not to mention the fuel and OT you may need to pay to cover those costs.

Let's say it costs an extra $100 per hour per bus. 6 buses is $600 per hour multiplied by 12 hour shift. Basically to have busses stuck in traffic going nowhere.

How does that make sense?

They should do that for other routes as well. Post COVID rush hour has gone from 6 hours a day to besically 12. Your typical work day is not 9-5 which makes travel more spread out.

It's only going to get worse.

 

[anb]

I don't see why that's a bad thing. Think about this for a second, if you drive that bus downtown and you spend 30min going and 30min comming back.

If every trip was delayed 30min the schedule would be out of wack or you would need at least one standby bus per departure for those routes.

That's 3-6 extra buses, and operators. Not to mention the fuel and OT you may need to pay to cover those costs.

Let's say it costs an extra $100 per hour per bus. 6 buses is $600 per hour multiplied by 12 hour shift. Basically to have busses stuck in traffic going nowhere.

How does that make sense?

They should do that for other routes as well. Post COVID rush hour has gone from 6 hours a day to besically 12. Your typical work day is not 9-5 which makes travel more spread out.

It's only going to get worse.

I don’t mean that its a bad thing that these Union buses getting detoured to other locations (in fact that does benefit some passengers a bit), but they didn’t even bother to try to combat a solution to allow a more efficient and reliable infrastructure in and out of the terminal. I could maybe get that implementing bus lanes on Harbour/Lake Shore would be difficult, but why not build more than one entrance or locate the bus terminal somewhere where there isn’t much traffic. The older terminal on Bay still had traffic but didn’t have massive backup just getting inside like we do now with this new one.

 

[Bordercollie]

I don’t mean that its a bad thing that these Union buses getting detoured to other locations (in fact that does benefit some passengers a bit), but they didn’t even bother to try to combat a solution to allow a more efficient and reliable infrastructure in and out of the terminal. I could maybe get that implementing bus lanes on Harbour/Lake Shore would be difficult, but why not build more than one entrance or locate the bus terminal somewhere where there isn’t much traffic. The older terminal on Bay still had traffic but didn’t have massive backup just getting inside like we do now with this new one.

The area immediately around the terminal is a problem but there is construction going on which limits the number of lanes available. They should have stricter rules on how long they can block traffic or something to ensure construction is done in a timely manner.

However the path to and from downtown is also an issue. I think they are at least taking measures to prevent delays.

Better than the way the TTC manages anything. With zero communication about delays.