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A mysterious "fire investigation" shuttered service on the west end of Lakeshore again tonight. There does not appear to have been an actual fire, only an investigation of one? Either way, many late evening trips were cancelled and some pour souls had to switch to shuttle busses to go west of Appleby at 10:30 p.m.
 
Yes, but one could still evacuate the train, from the opposite side as the fatality, to give people fresh air, and get them down to street level or the nearest station platform, depending on distance. (particularly if all rail traffic is frozen)
The section of track the train was stranded at was around South Kingsway. The closest station platform would be Mimico, and the closest at-grade crossing would be in Mississauga. The tracks are on an embankment with the Gardiner right beside them making it a dangerous evacuation, especially at night with hundreds of people (some of which were intoxicated) eagerly wanting to leave.
 
The section of track the train was stranded at was around South Kingsway. The closest station platform would be Mimico, and the closest at-grade crossing would be in Mississauga. The tracks are on an embankment with the Gardiner right beside them making it a dangerous evacuation, especially at night with hundreds of people (some of which were intoxicated) eagerly wanting to leave.

I'm not unsympathetic to the notion of danger, though a 4-track wide cross section is not a rail trestle over a canyon.......

Clearly some people on board were having symptoms of medical distress, which makes it a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

Intoxicated people are risk to themselves in any public setting; that said trains have to be capable of being evacuated (what if there was a fire on the train?) you simply have to be able to do that, then have a risk-management scenario for what follows.

This is the rail corridor close to S. Kingsway, just west of Windermere:

1662896711238.png


The photo was in 2020, so one might assume that a fence has since been installed, though I don't know.

But certainly, that doesn't seem like overly challenging grade to get down to this turning circle / parking lot for an adjacent condo.

****

Relatedly, in looking at the corridor in this area, I see a lack of staircases up to it.

When the rail corridor was grade-separated in the east east end, most sections got stairs up to track level, even when there is no station nearby, presumably to facilitate an emergency exit and/or CN rail access

(and/or, they have gentle grades down or potential at-grade access to nearby properties)

Those stairs today are often poorly maintained, and if there, are either fenced off at the bottom or top, but it did strike me as curious I didn't see any at the nearby roads here.

Stairs at Logan Avenue:


1662897086154.png


Gentle grade at Jones:

1662897277055.png


Exit Door in fence just off Greenwood:

1662897370156.png


Staircase to tracks at Coxwell:

1662897431755.png


Perhaps @smallspy or @crs1026 could lend some historical context as to why this was done this way at one point.

The Coxwell one is particularly interesting, because you can see the stairs were rebuilt quite recently, when the underpass was re-done, you can also see the fence that blocks you from getting all the way up.
 
But if the train was delayed more than 15 minutes you can get a refund can't you?

Why didn't the original train continue all the way to West Harbor? If it was a crew issue they could have swapped crews not passengers.

Seems like total disorganization and lack of urgency to resolve the situation.
If you tap on too early It doesn’t work and Metrolinx doesn’t have an appeal process.

A few months ago I just missed a train (tapped at 7:00, train left at 7:01), and had to wait 15 minutes for the next train. That train was delayed over 45 minutes.. and I didn’t get a refund because I tapped 16 minutes before the train arrived and the cutoff is apparently 15 minutes.
 
So are they just not going to use their $100+ million bus terminal anymore? Everything except Barrie buses (since there are no trains) are detoured to Port Credit again today...I did a quick trip to Aurora this morning and traffic wasn't even that bad. Not sure why they keep doing this every weekend.

While waiting for my bus, I saw multiple people come in, look at the screens with all the cancelled buses and then leave disappointed.
Just realized that they have been heading to the 407 station if the Barrie and Stouffville buses were to detour, meaning that they can go to the subway if they wanted to, despite them not having that many choices coming from more north. It’s probably easier to detour where ML owns the terminals, but they literally own the new Kipling terminal and haven’t been going there for the west end buses.

Pushing Port Credit down our throats is only going to make the weekend bus service completely and utterly insufferable. I’m pretty sure that people would rather pay extra for the subway than to deal with the detoured mess if that meant for them to at least get somewhere during the painful time it takes on the QEW/Hurontario.
 
Stairs at Logan Avenue:
Isn't that the old staircase to the Canadian Chewing Gum factory? Presumably built when they grade separated it in the 1920s. But there's not much of an embankment - at Thackery there's ready access to the tracks; so this wouldn't have been for emergency egress.

The Coxwell one is particularly interesting, because you can see the stairs were rebuilt quite recently, when the underpass was re-done, you can also see the fence that blocks you from getting all the way up.
They built a fence on the pedestrian path from Coxwell to Woodfield, connecting to the Monarch Park underpass?

How odd; I haven't walked that way for a couple of months. When did you take your picture?
 
How odd; I haven't walked that way for a couple of months. When did you take your picture?

Picture is Streetview, didn't look at the date, but most are current to last year these days, but some might be 2020
 
Seems like it is time for GO to put their thinking caps on and figure out what should have happened Friday night. Making excuses pointing at things beyond their control and things they can't do, is escaping from discussion what they could have done. What if there was a fire on the train... would the response be that it was too unsafe to unload the passengers? What if some person became violent and started going on a rampage... would the response be that it was too unsafe to unload passengers? What if the train derailed but was completely upright... would the response be that people remain for 24 hours while things are put together? Obviously at some point emptying the train needs to be an option that Metrolinx needs to find a way to make safe. There must be a way to better communicate, better prepare for heat/dehydration, better handle getting things running faster, and have a greater ability to safely get people off the train. I accept that you certainly wouldn't open the doors on an active corridor, and that unloading the train would should not be the choice for most delays due to the complexity of shutting down the corridor and providing a safe environment for walking, but there needs to be some capability to unload safely and a time limit after which it becomes Metrolinx's responsibility to free the hostages.
 
Picture is Streetview, didn't look at the date, but most are current to last year these days, but some might be 2020
In can assure you then, there is no fence. That's a very-well used path, and by far the fastest way for residents on several streets to get to Coxwell and then Danforth.

Looking in Streetview, it's from 2021. The fence is the one parallel to the tracks. If you look in the leaves-down photo from April 2009, you get a better view. It turns at the top of the stairs.

I was surprised when they did all that work, that they didn't turn the stairs into a ramp.

1662919906667.png
 
Those stairs and the section of the pathway from Coxwell to Rhodes was redone pretty soon after the viaduct was rebuilt. They were in pretty bad shape before. I'm not sure exactly why they made the steps go higher (and raised the path) but there was probably some reason for it.

Also, IIRC there are a couple gates in the fence along the path. I happened to find one unlocked once!
 
Why not just reverse the train back to Union and let people off there? If it's clear there's been a fatality on track at the next station, the train should just go backwards to the previous one and let people off there. It's really not that complicated.
 
Why not just reverse the train back to Union and let people off there? If it's clear there's been a fatality on track at the next station, the train should just go backwards to the previous one and let people off there. It's really not that complicated.
Wasn't the train in question the train that hit the person?
 
Why not just reverse the train back to Union and let people off there? If it's clear there's been a fatality on track at the next station, the train should just go backwards to the previous one and let people off there. It's really not that complicated.

I’m afraid that simplistic “why don’t they just….” proposals won’t change anything.

Someone needs to commission a working group consisting of reps from the various first response organizations and the rail agencies and regulator ( and maybe others eg the Attorney General) with a mandate that the current arrangement is unacceptable and must be changed. That mandate needs to be pretty firm because any one of the parties standing on the status quo can kill any forward motion.

The target audience for a better process involves so many people (hundreds of rail workers, thousands of first responders) and changing what people are accustomed to doing is not to be underestimated.

A few things that play into this
- the investigation of an incident has to be done to evidentiary standards in light of potential criminal and civil responses
- the position of the stopped train, and the status of numerous controls and devices on that train, may be part of that train of evidence and cannot be disturbed
- once the scene is occupied by first responders, the railway no longer has sufficient control of the scene to operate safely
- to be a bit graphic, the location(s) of human remains may make it unwise to have passengers on moving trains pass through the area
- the operability of the train itself may be in question and may need to be verified (and documented, see evidentiary comment)
- the train may itself be contaminated by human remains and not be fit to proceed
- the crew will no longer be fit for service

Rather than rushing to run trains during the incident investigation, my simplistic solution is to make the Incident Commander more accountable for the care and safety of those passengers. ML may not be able to rustle up a supply of shuttle buses to offload a disabled train, but I bet the Fire Department can get something done.

I would pass a regulation that every situation where a train containing passengers is stalled in an isolated location for longer than a defined period must be deemed a rescue emergency and requires dispatch of some level of first response with an accountable Incident Commander with legal authority and accountability to make decisions and take action. (Frankly, I feel the same approach is needed with respect to loaded airplanes that are parked on the tarmac for hours without regard for the human needs of passengers).

There is not, nor has there ever been, a design specification for railway rights of way mandating accessibility to every inch of line, either to bring first responders to a scene or to evacuate passengers from a scene. Standards for say evacuation of the TTC subway are far higher. It’s high time that this is addressed for GO service, at least in the urban environment of the GTA. There may be limits to what is possible, but we definitely need to do better.

- Paul

PS - maybe GO railcars need a maximum legal loading regulation. We don’t pack airplanes to standing room levels….
 
Staircase to tracks at Coxwell:

View attachment 426281

Perhaps @smallspy or @crs1026 could lend some historical context as to why this was done this way at one point.

The Coxwell one is particularly interesting, because you can see the stairs were rebuilt quite recently, when the underpass was re-done, you can also see the fence that blocks you from getting all the way up.
That staircase doesn't lead to the tracks at all, but rather to a walkway - located at a lower level - that runs parallel to the tracks west for several blocks. This may have been a replacement for an alley that originally existed on that stretch, but I can't find any evidence of that.

This has been one of the few areas along the tracks that have historically always been fenced.

Dan
 
Meh. When the literal Fire Marshal ordered an evacuation of 20 000 people from the Scotia Bank Arena due to a speaker fire a number of people STILL refused to leave and complained that their opinion of the severity of the situation overrode that of the Fire Marshal.

I think this was a lose, lose situation.
 

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