[Northern Light]

On this whole London thing............(GO Train being nixed).

I'm looking at news coverage......from CTV London's story on the return of VIA's Trains 82/83, I found this to be interesting:

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VIA boss aiming to return popular commuter train to southwestern Ontario this fall

VIA Rail trains 82 and 83 are on track for a return to the Toronto-Brantford-London corridor. On Thursday, a meeting between Canada’s transport minister, VIA Rail, Metrolinx, and southwestern Ontario mayors yielded immediate results for commuters — and a commitment to improve passenger rail...

london.ctvnews.ca

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This is consistent, I think w/what @smallspy posted.

The players literally met together the day of the VIA announcement and the day before the GO announcement

****

On what exactly is going on in London (at the station)...........I first went to 2022-2026 Corporate Plan, which didn't give much detail at all.....

https://corpo.viarail.ca/sites/default/files/media/pdf/About_VIA/Summary_Corporate_Plan_2022-2026.PDF

Then I turned to MERX to see if there had been a tender for London............ Lo and Behold.......

Cps674_platform Refurbishment London - 202302002 | MERX

www.merx.com

From the above:

Still not much detail, but there's the work program. Tender closed March 24, so understandable they want to get the work moving.

 

[Metroscapes]

From what I've been told by people closer to the situation.....

- there is a feeling that this has been announced at this particular time in order to allow the Province time to make their own plans and to then swoop in much closer to the kill date and "save" the project.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

From what I've been told by people closer to the situation.....

- part of the issue is that VIA is planning some major improvements to London Station. I don't know exactly what they have in mind, but it's enough that they can't allow GO to stable the train at the station overnight after October. And VIA apparently wants to get going on these improvements - thus the timeline.
- CN had originally offered to allow GO to stable the train in London Yard before balking due to Metrolinx's security requirements.
- Metrolinx had original designed a more fullsome schedule that had 3 or 4 departures daily from London, all throughout the day. That was kyboshed close to the actual launch of the service, but there are still some within the organization that are pushing for this.
- there is a feeling that this has been announced at this particular time in order to allow the Province time to make their own plans and to then swoop in much closer to the kill date and "save" the project.

Dan

Doug Ford's Ontario, Ladies and Gentlemen.

 

[rdaner]

^I don’t care if this is being orchestrated by the Kremlin as long as the end result is improved service! Lol

 

[crs1026]

^I don’t care if this is being orchestrated by the Kremlin as long as the end result is improved service! Lol

Well, somewhere in the middle would be an improvement. But, it is encouraging that the parties would meet and come away agreeing to do something tangible and not just commission more studies.

Hoping that the London platform upgrade, whatever it is, adds a high level platform. That won't help GO, but it would definitely help VIA marketing. I imagine that the secondary platform is in real need of work, also.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

Hoping that the London platform upgrade, whatever it is, adds a high level platform. That won't help GO, but it would definitely help VIA marketing.

I have absolutely no idea how the height of the platform has any influence on ridership. I really don't think the average customer could care less - or even notice much of the time.

 

[crs1026]

I have absolutely no idea how the height of the platform has any influence on ridership. I really don't think the average customer could care less - or even notice much of the time.

Schlepping a suitcase up the steps is worth avoiding- even if the stepping down station isn’t level yet. And for more senior riders, the steps can be intimidating. It may be an intangible but I’m sure it registers.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

Schlepping a suitcase up the steps is worth avoiding- even if the stepping down station isn’t level yet. And for more senior riders, the steps can be intimidating. It may be an intangible but I’m sure it registers.

- Paul

Don't you know @nfitz always made use of the Red Caps when they were around, since then he's had his butler carry his bags. LOL

 

[EnviroTO]

No doubt level platforms are better, but how many people make travel decisions based on air stairs vs jetways, and low platforms vs level platforms. The most worthwhile investments are the ones that actually change ridership.

 

[nfitz]

Don't you know @nfitz always made use of the Red Caps when they were around, since then he's had his butler carry his bags. LOL

Just because I'm not concerned by such trivialities is no reason to be personally condescening. Despite riding frequently in both the UK and on VIA, I never even noticed the platform difference much until coming to this forum.

A couple of steps to get on the car also seems to be minor compared to how many steps you need to schlep up and down just to get to the platforms at many stations! Which we don't discuss.

And I've never understood the eternal hand-wring and shouting at clouds over it; it's likely not even a factor compared to so many other issues like frequency, speed, and pricing. I'd bet if you were to look at this scientifically, the elasticity would be near infinite.

The sensitivity compared to pricing is very low; and yet we don't seem to mention that much for most pairs.

 

[APTA-2048]

Schlepping a suitcase up the steps is worth avoiding- even if the stepping down station isn’t level yet. And for more senior riders, the steps can be intimidating. It may be an intangible but I’m sure it registers.

- Paul

This is especially glaring when I take the Maple Leaf. I never look forward to the border check at Niagara Falls on the Canadian side where you have to carry your bags down from the train, then back up, and then back down at Union. The US side is so much easier with level boarding. I definitely wish they could do this on the Canadian side.

 

[Northern Light]

Just because I'm not concerned by such trivialities is no reason to be personally condescening.

I was in no way condescending; its called a joke, my tongue was firmly in me cheek. To ensure it was understood that way, I placed an LOL at the end of the sentence.

Despite riding frequently in both the UK and on VIA, I never even noticed the platform difference much until coming to this forum.

I would agree that I've seen it discussed here more often than in my general circles; but then again, I don't know a lot of people who both take via and use a mobility aid, or otherwise find steps difficult.

A couple of steps to get on the car also seems to be minor compared to how many steps you need to schlep up and down just to get to the platforms at many stations! Which we don't discuss.

Sure we do, and Union's platforms have passenger elevators for just this reason, and all GO stations (where steps are required to access the platform) were supposed to have them by 2025, I'm not sure if that is, in fact the case.

And I've never understood the eternal hand-wring and shouting at clouds over it; it's likely not even a factor compared to so many other issues like frequency, speed, and pricing. I'd bet if you were to look at this scientifically, the elasticity would be near infinite.

The sensitivity compared to pricing is very low; and yet we don't seem to mention that much for most pairs.

On a personal level, I would certainly prioritize speed of travel and route frequency; but again, I'm middle-aged and generally able-bodied. Others are at different points in their lives and face different challenges.

 

[crs1026]

^Maybe all true, but in the context of a single improvement project, improving the platform to allow walk-on is one low-hanging incremental thing that can be done to improve the experience, and not just repaint and replaster. I take your point that the entire passage from front door to seat needs to be smooth. Hopefully VIA is also improving ramps leading to the platform atLondon.

Interestingly, SNCf has a high profile big-dollar, multi year program to replace the large number of steep staircases in its stations with elevators and ramps. With so many connecting lines, and connections often scheduled for only a few minutes' layover, dashing from platform to platform with a heavy suitcase is a major concern for travellers like me. I'm quite sure that an aging population anticipates the steps they will have to take, and train vestibule steps (which are quite awkward) are a piece of that.

- Paul

 

[reaperexpress]

Cancelling the London-Kitchener train without replacing it with a comparable bus service would eliminate any credibility that the Conservatives have with their election promise to upgrade the railway. If they want to introduce a fast and frequent regional rail service in the corridor, they need to start building ridership in the corridor. Abandoning what little ridership the corridor currently has, would clearly be contrary to that goal.

The train is currently carrying more than a busload of people. A bus can match the train's travel time while also improving access within KW (e.g. by serving the Central Station LRT stop and/or continuing beyond Kitchener Station to Laurier and UW), so it's safe to assume we could retain a fairly large proportion of the existing ridership with a GO bus service from London to Kitchener. Switching to buses would enable railway upgrades to proceed without needing to constantly institute temporary schedule changes.

Would be nice if one of these improvements VIA is looking at in London is at least one full height platform, even if it is just half length and notched into the existing north one

Indeed London Station is probably the single best candidate for new high-level platforms with level boarding to VIA trains. Apart from Union Station, which is undergoing its own redesign process, London is the busiest station on the VIA network without level boarding.

All of London Station's platforms are located on sidings which are never used by freight trains, which gives VIA and GO full freedom to raise all of the platforms to their liking. Personally I'd like if they raise the island platforms for VIA while leaving the north side platform low to enable future GO train use. Since GO's level boarding standard is 610mm while Via's is 1220mm. GO trains will all diverge towards the north (towards Kitchener) so it makes sense for them to have the northernmost platform to reduce conflicts in the future when there is more than one approach track.

Reaperexpress conceptual track users. Tracks colour coded by primary user, not necessarily track owner.

I have absolutely no idea how the height of the platform has any influence on ridership. I really don't think the average customer could care less - or even notice much of the time.

Level boarding is essential to reducing dwell times and improving reliability. Passengers can board and alight the train at a higher rate with level boarding than they can while carrying a bag down a flight of steps (often handing their bag to an attendant). Saving a couple seconds per passenger adds up, especially at busy stations such as London.

Furthermore, the manually hand-cranked wheelchair lift takes absolutely forever (several minutes) just to load a single passenger. The presence of someone in a wheelchair basically guarantees a 10 minute delay for the train (5 minutes each at the boarding and alighting stations). With level boarding and Via's usual gap filler plates, a customer in a wheelchair takes only a second or two longer to board than an able-bodied passenger, eliminating that source of delays.

No doubt level platforms are better, but how many people make travel decisions based on air stairs vs jetways, and low platforms vs level platforms. The most worthwhile investments are the ones that actually change ridership.

While level boarding is not specifically an item that most people consider when chosing their mode of travel, the overall ease of travel certainly is, as is the speed and reliability of the service. Level boarding will improve the ease of access (primarily for those with luggage, the elderly etc), and improve speed and reliability, so it follows that level boarding will (very slightly) increase passenger demand.

 

[dowlingm]

Level boarding is essential to reducing dwell times and improving reliability. The current steps not only reduce the boarding rate substantially, the manually hand-cranked wheelchair lift takes absolutely forever (several minutes) just to load a single passenger. The presence of someone in a wheelchair basically guarantees a 10 minute delay for the train (5 minutes each at the boarding and alighting stations). With level boarding and Via's usual gap filler plates, a customer in a wheelchair takes only a second or two longer to board than an able-bodied passenger, eliminating that source of delays.

Coincidentally, this came up in my feed from a UK Twitter user - while it will take decades for the VIA network to be accessible, having stations like London be level boarding should be an immediate aspiration