[bigkiwibird]

Does anyone know if GO has a plan for a fifth trip on the Barrie Line in the AM Peak and PM Peak?

AM would be an extra trip that arrives Union @ 9:20
PM would be an extra trip that departs Union @ 18:30

Both trips would follow the 30 minute gap.

I don't have ridership data with me but just by personally taking the current trips available, it would seem like an extra trip would have pretty good ridership (especially the PM trip)
!

From my 4 year ridership on this line, almost daily, I have seen a huge up-tick in ridership. Most riders at Rutherford are out of luck for a seat on the second last train (8:24) to arrive in the AM. The additional two cars will be a big help. I'm not certain how they will arrive at each station as I think most of the stations are only long enough to accompany L10's. 4 years ago a couple stations were only able to handle L8 trains and they would inform passengers on specific cars that the doors would not open on certain cars at certain stations. We will likely return to those days unless they can lengthen the platforms.
The other problem is still parking. King station is full (three ground-level lots) by 7:20 and the second last train arrives there at 7:39. This forces people who would prefer to take the 8:09 King arrival on the earlier trains due to lack of parking. A fifth train might not be a huge help if it isn't scheduled at the proper time. If it is too late or early perhaps only an L8 would make any sense at the moment. If they could alter the schedule enough to have 3 of the trains leave or arrive closer to the traditional rush hour window that could also be more beneficial. Most people still have little interest in arriving to work earlier than necessary and are equally uninterested in hanging around just to wait for a seat on a train.

 

[bigkiwibird]

Does anyone know if GO has a plan for a fifth trip on the Barrie Line in the AM Peak and PM Peak?

AM would be an extra trip that arrives Union @ 9:20
PM would be an extra trip that departs Union @ 18:30

Both trips would follow the 30 minute gap.

I don't have ridership data with me but just by personally taking the current trips available, it would seem like an extra trip would have pretty good ridership (especially the PM trip)
!

From my 4 year ridership on this line, almost daily, I have seen a huge up-tick in ridership. Most riders at Rutherford are out of luck for a seat on the second last train (8:24) to arrive in the AM. The additional two cars will be a big help. I'm not certain how they will arrive at each station as I think most of the stations are only long enough to accompany L10's. 4 years ago a couple stations were only able to handle L8 trains and they would inform passengers on specific cars that the doors would not open on certain cars at certain stations. We will likely return to those days unless they can lengthen the platforms.
The other problem is still parking. King station is full (three ground-level lots) by 7:20 and the second last train arrives there at 7:39. This forces people who would prefer to take the 8:09 King arrival on the earlier trains due to lack of parking. A fifth train might not be a huge help if it isn't scheduled at the proper time. If it is too late or early perhaps only an L8 would make any sense at the moment. If they could alter the schedule enough to have 3 of the trains leave or arrive closer to the traditional rush hour window that could also be more beneficial. Most people still have little interest in arriving to work earlier than necessary and are equally uninterested in hanging around just to wait for a seat on a train.

 

[canarob]

From my 4 year ridership on this line, almost daily, I have seen a huge up-tick in ridership. Most riders at Rutherford are out of luck for a seat on the second last train (8:24) to arrive in the AM. The additional two cars will be a big help. I'm not certain how they will arrive at each station as I think most of the stations are only long enough to accompany L10's. 4 years ago a couple stations were only able to handle L8 trains and they would inform passengers on specific cars that the doors would not open on certain cars at certain stations. We will likely return to those days unless they can lengthen the platforms.

If you like riding on trains where it's too packed to move, try taking the Stouffville line. People getting on at Milliken, Agincourt and Kennedy (not to mention many of the people getting on at Unionville) have to pack in like sardines.

GO has been adding more parking, and I'm excited about Metrolinx's purchase of more of the lakeshore east line as that means the Stouffville Line is now entirely owned by GO, but damn do we need more trains! The two extra cars in the fall will help, but given continued population growth and all those new riders the parking expansions will bring, it won't help for long.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Metrolinx buys rail line from CN
By Robert Mackenzie on March 30, 2011 6:37 PM

Metrolinx has bought part of the Kingston Subdivision rail line from the Canadian National Railways for $299 million.

The line consists of a two- and three-track rail corridor, extending east of Union Station to a junction near Whites Road in Pickering, where the line connects with GO Transit’s separate rail right-of-way to Oshawa.

By buying the line, Metrolinx gains full ownership of major parts of GO’s 09 Lakeshore East and 71 **Stouffville lines in east-end Toronto. Metrolinx now owns 61 per cent of the rail corridors on which GO Transit operates commuter trains.

CN’s agreement with Metrolinx protects its rights to operate freight trains along the line, so it can continue to serve its freight customers.

You can see a map of the Kingston Subdivision and CN, Canadian Pacific Railway and Metrolinx / GO Transit rail corridors in the Greater Toronto Area here. (.pdf)

http://www.cn.ca/documents/Media-News-Release/CN-Metrolinx-rail-corridors-map.pdf

Finally its come to pass as mentioned here.
Anyhow a good portion of rest of the Oakville sub is to come next and we wont have to wait too long for it.

This sums up metrolinx recent purchases;
Weston sub - 160$ million - 16 mile corridor - almost 22 miles of mainline track, to be increased to over 60 miles (3-4 tracks)
Newmarket sub (CTC portion) - 68$ million - 14 miles of the corridor - 14 miles of mainline track, to be increased to 28 miles
Belleville sub (Don Branch) - cost unknown (probably a few million) - 3.2 mile corridor - 3.2 miles of unused broken down mainline track
Oakville sub to Campa - 72$ million - appox. 7.5 miles of the corridor - over 30 miles of mainline track, currently 2 more miles u/c
Kingston sub - 299$ million - 18.5 mile corridor - almost 50 miles of mainline track, further increases planned


299 mil might seem like a lot but its a drop in the bucket for the cost saved by paying CN for running rights for the next several decades. The costs of which would increase greatly as the service increases nevermind the benefits of priority dispatching. The cost of rail maintenance will be but a fraction of the running rights costs since light weight GO trains don't wear down and damage the tracks anywhere near as much as freight trains.

For comparison purposes consider the West Toronto grade separation alone costs 277 mil.

 

[Dan416]

What would it take for Metrolinx to buy the Milton line from CP? Will it ever happen?

 

[vegeta_skyline]

hmm... for them to give up ownership of their main line, its pretty much priceless to them... But IF it could be bought, it'd probably take something like 1.5 billion (when realistically based off the CN purchases its actual value - tracks and land worth is no more than 500 million Union to Milton). Unfortunately I think the best bet would be a merger between CN & CP. If that were to happen such a combined company wouldn't need 2 east-west mainline (doing more with less is the be all end all for all freight railroads afterall) they'd be more likely to keep the CN line - straighter track, lower grades, few large bridges to maintain, plus exclusive usage. The Milton line(Galt sub) would be surplus to sell off. Of course, as long as their both productive such a merger won't happen. Sorry, but you Mississauga folks got the raw end of the deal when it comes to difficulties with service increases.

 

[TransitPolicyChanger]

Sorry to jump in the middle of this debate, but as I posted in the "Say good-bye to Highways" thread, there is talk of killing the GO line to Peterborough to be replaced with a highway to head right to Toronto via the rail corridor and connect to the DVP. Needless to say, Rob Ford is pleased with this concept.

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=5061

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Sorry to jump in the middle of this debate, but as I posted in the "Say good-bye to Highways" thread, there is talk of killing the GO line to Peterborough to be replaced with a highway to head right to Toronto via the rail corridor and connect to the DVP. Needless to say, Rob Ford is pleased with this concept.

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=5061

Have you looked at your calendar today? April Fools

 

[Northern Light]

On the CP Mainline question.....

I have to inquire with Mapleson, Vegeta , Smallspy and other rail experts..............

As I understand the GO Milton plan (for full day service), it is to 4-track the CP Galt through the all-day portion of the corridor.

That being the case, can't GO just 'buy' the 2 tracks and leave CP its 2 under separate ownership?

I was thinking of something similar for VIA beyond Durham Junction, where it could 4-track the corridor on the Kingston Sub to say Oshawa (or all of it for that matter) and simply own the 2 extra tracks, with CN maintaining ownership of its own 2 mainline tracks.

Is this feasible? Would the railways be likely to agree?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Thanks in advance for any insights.

 

[dowlingm]

The other problem is still parking. King station is full (three ground-level lots) by 7:20 and the second last train arrives there at 7:39. This forces people who would prefer to take the 8:09 King arrival on the earlier trains due to lack of parking. A fifth train might not be a huge help if it isn't scheduled at the proper time. If it is too late or early perhaps only an L8 would make any sense at the moment. If they could alter the schedule enough to have 3 of the trains leave or arrive closer to the traditional rush hour window that could also be more beneficial.

I realise that the current Metrolinx thinking on parking is to see whether the Feds have any stimulus money to build parking garages, but maybe there's a case for YRT to put on some more service on the 22 (currently 30min headway) if the parking is that stretched at King GO? Is the 22 not serving the catchment the cars are coming from?

 

[Memph]

Aside from parking space, how about parking exits? I usually take the train from Clarkson, and the wait to get out of the parking onto Lakeshore or Southdown is a fairly reasonable 1-3 minutes. However, I once took the train to Oakville GO, getting picked up at the K&R around 5:35 and it took a full 20 minutes to get out to Cross Street. It looked like there were just too many cars trying to get out at the same time. Has anyone else had similar experiences? I hope improving parking exits are being considered as a cheap way to improve commute times and reduce greenhouse gas emissions...

 

[MapleLeafs]

Aside from parking space, how about parking exits? I usually take the train from Clarkson, and the wait to get out of the parking onto Lakeshore or Southdown is a fairly reasonable 1-3 minutes. However, I once took the train to Oakville GO, getting picked up at the K&R around 5:35 and it took a full 20 minutes to get out to Cross Street. It looked like there were just too many cars trying to get out at the same time. Has anyone else had similar experiences? I hope improving parking exits are being considered as a cheap way to improve commute times and reduce greenhouse gas emissions...

Yeah, Oakville is a huge mess any time of the day, let alone during rush hour. The problem as I see it is that very few people are looking to go left on Cross. Everyone wants to turn right, towards Trafalgar.

 

[Dan416]

Does anyone know if the Erindale GO parking structure is 100% parking? Or is there condos in the mix? What has been done with other GO parking garages?

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Don't know about Erindale, but Burlington, Ajax and Aurora are parking structures only.

 

[drum118]

All GO Parking Structures are 100% for parking with no plans for condo on top of them at a future date. Looking at Burlington structure, it looks like it can have more floors added at a later date.

Another case where GO believes condos, office buildings don't make good sense for their station. GO wants surface parking, as it is cheaper than underground parking.

Having said that, GO Mimico station is to be redevelop into an condo tower with some underground parking or above, depending final design, but only for a small amount of cars.

This will be a first for GO.

The problem for this condo, it does not help GO to move the existing tracks north of the current location so the existing platforms can be lengthen to 12 cars as well been made wider. That north platform going east really gets very narrow and the whole platform cannot be lengthen now. The south one can be lengthen with no problem.

If one looks at GO Station locations, they are in waste land, industrial areas and so on that it makes no sense in building a condo/office there in the first pace at this time. Maybe in 50 years would be a good time as the various waste land is developed, changes to the various industrial where changes no longer need their products as well changes in employment requirement.