[mpd618]

Sure, but you would have thought that they or local journos printing the stories about upcoming service would have been able to discern that GO is not, yet, a weekends and off-peak rail service.

The stories had all the details. But the public expectations may be different in places that are and aren't bedroom communities of Toronto - and Kitchener falls squarely in the latter category.

I also think that, in general, the general public's perception of what is an affordable train connection (from anywhere really) is out of synch with what GO can, and does, offer. There is one lady here in our office who was excited when she heard about the K-W extension ... she became less enthusiastic and declared "well if it takes 2 hours and costs more than $10....who would use it!".

Driving is just as expensive (gas alone is the same as a GO round trip), and more stressful. It may take longer, but time in a train is not as useless as and is more pleasant than long car commutes. So I think some people who make the commute already will use it - but both endpoints need to be easy to reach.

I just think that the farther out you go, the less likely you are to be able to offer the kind of service at the kind of price that the commuting/travelling public is expecting....so the "capture rates" are likely going to be less.

I understand your point, though I'm not sure I've seen much interest on GO's part to invest in better service as opposed to more service area and more capacity. What the Kitchener extension may do is help GO realize that there is a world out there beyond peak-hour suburb-to-CBD service. The "reverse-peak" (as GO thinks of it) travel into Kitchener is just as high as the "peak" commute out of it. Maybe having the market bring them to understanding the needs of an intercity service will spur GO to apply the ideas to the inner GTA. Ultimately, I would like to see GO serving an S-Bahn type role for the entire GTHA.

 

[TOareaFan]

The stories had all the details. But the public expectations may be different in places that are and aren't bedroom communities of Toronto - and Kitchener falls squarely in the latter category.

Which goes back to my original retort....why would they be surprised to, now, find out that it was only a peak commute service they are receiving?

Driving is just as expensive (gas alone is the same as a GO round trip), and more stressful. It may take longer, but time in a train is not as useless as and is more pleasant than long car commutes. So I think some people who make the commute already will use it - but both endpoints need to be easy to reach.

That is not a K-W specific issue....but for the most part the public speaks by getting into their cars...a lot! Take the Lakeshore West route....communities like Oakville and Burnlington are not really that large....and they have all day-two way-every day service....yet the QEW/403 are still very congested roads. People, whether we who discuss these issues on boards like it or not, will pay a premium (in dollar and productivity terms) for that personal/private door to door service that only the car provides.

I understand your point, though I'm not sure I've seen much interest on GO's part to invest in better service as opposed to more service area and more capacity.

The investment, at present, is huge an record setting. A lot of it is in large infrastructure projects that, while long overdue, won't bare fruit until the middle of the decade but they are investing

What the Kitchener extension may do is help GO realize that there is a world out there beyond peak-hour suburb-to-CBD service. The "reverse-peak" (as GO thinks of it) travel into Kitchener is just as high as the "peak" commute out of it.

A look at any of the roads around the GTA will show the same thing. If GO can't see that "just getting people to Union Station" is not the only issue by looking at the 401/QEW-Gardiner/403/410/400/404-DVP or any of the larger through roads in the GTA....studying traffic patterns in the K-W area will not help them.

I think that the extension to K-W is simply happening because it can. GO feels a need to expand....in the short term the physical constraints within its current service area all (most really) need large/long-term investment that do not show progress in the short term to the public.....so the K-W extension is a bit of "show"....for that reason it may be "ok" but it will not (cannot?) produce yields (either in passengers or revenue) sufficient enough to logically warrant the investment of resources.

 

[mattbg]

I also think that, in general, the general public's perception of what is an affordable train connection (from anywhere really) is out of synch with what GO can, and does, offer. There is one lady here in our office who was excited when she heard about the K-W extension....she commutes from there to here by car now. She really thought that what was coming was a train that would get her here in 1 hour for "around $10"....when I told her that it already takes that train 1 hour to get here from Georgetown and she was probably looking at an additional hour on top of that and that the fare from Georgetown was $8.50 so her's was not likely to be $10....she became less enthusiastic and declared "well if it takes 2 hours and costs more than $10....who would use it!".

Classic

I kinda agree with mattbg on this (but perhaps from a different perspective) idea that extending further out is not the way to expand. I just think that the farther out you go, the less likely you are to be able to offer the kind of service at the kind of price that the commuting/travelling public is expecting....so the "capture rates" are likely going to be less. So you will be running a service that has a much lower expense recovery rate than you could achieve by deploying those resources within the existing network.

I guess we will find out. It's hard to imagine GO hasn't studied it. If it's really about KW-to-Guelph trips then maybe there's a reason for it. It's not a very useful extension, though, because I couldn't, say, go from Georgetown to Guelph or Guelph to K-W on the thing because it doesn't go that way in the morning.

Didn't they used to run GO service further west than Georgetown in the past and eventually discontinued it?

Beyond a point (and I would probably draw that line at a +/- 1 hour train ride) that service should be offered by something like VIA which can probably charge a higher fare and offer better amenities and less stops so can come closer to the mark....just my opinion though.

Agree -- and GO Train is a pretty rough ride for 2 hours. It's not the most comfortable way to travel; lots of vibrations. VIA is more comfortable.

 

[Dan416]

GO is simply reversing the cuts that forced it to retreat to Bradford and Georgetown. Coming up on 20 years later. Kinda sad it took this long just to get back to where we were. And we still haven't gotten mid-day service back to Erindale.

 

[Jonny5]

Take the Lakeshore West route....communities like Oakville and Burnlington are not really that large....and they have all day-two way-every day service....yet the QEW/403 are still very congested roads. People, whether we who discuss these issues on boards like it or not, will pay a premium (in dollar and productivity terms) for that personal/private door to door service that only the car provides.

I don't see that as true at all. GO is the premium service to downtown. It's faster, more convenient, more comfortable, more reliable and cheaper (sometimes you caneven plug in your electronic devices). The QEW in Halton is congested for a much different reason. Having commuted by car from here before what you notice is that congestion is very heavy all the way to the 403 split then it clears out and you can gun it to 130kph all the way to Mississauga road. The congestion is from people in Halton travelling to jobs in Peel and Toronto that are nowhere near the Lakeshore. They are gonig to Meadowvale, the Airport, North York, Etobicoke, or one of the many other places GO can't take them.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Why doesn't GO just pay CP Rail and CN for 5 move crews, and announce 30 min service starting March 2012?

 

[Mapleson]

Because there is a shortage across the industry.

 

[Dan416]

Why doesn't GO just pay CP Rail and CN for 5 move crews, and announce 30 min service starting March 2012?

LOL I wish

 

[mattbg]

Because there is a shortage across the industry.

Is there any government interest in coaxing some of these basket weaving majors clogging up our universities to start taking on a profession like this? It sounds like it would be in everyone's interest.

 

[smallspy]

Is there any government interest in coaxing some of these basket weaving majors clogging up our universities to start taking on a profession like this? It sounds like it would be in everyone's interest.

You think they (and other service-based companies like the TTC) aren't already trying?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[drum118]

/

It's easy to GO to Scotiabank Caribbean Carnival Toronto
TORONTO, July 20, 2011 /CNW/ - For Scotiabank Caribbean Carnival Toronto events on July 30 and 31, GO Transit is selling advance specially-priced GO passes and running extra trains along the Lakeshore lines.
Starting July 20, festival revellers along the Lakeshore lines will be able to avoid line-ups and purchase specially-priced GO passes for July 30 and 31. Those attending the Grand Parade or Lime event can buy a $10 all-day GO pass between Exhibition GO Station and their home Lakeshore line station. A special $20 group pass is also available. Visit gotransit.com/caribbean to learn more.
On Saturday, July 30, 2011, GO is running extra train trips between Toronto (Exhibition), and Aldershot and Oshawa GO Stations. There will be two Toronto-bound trips before the Grand Parade, one from either direction; and two homebound trips out of Exhibition after the end of the event, one in either direction.
Grand Parade extra service:

• An eastbound Lakeshore West train departing Aldershot GO Station at 11:34 a.m. making all stops to Union Station, arriving at Exhibition GO Station at 12:30 p.m.
• A westbound Lakeshore East train departing Oshawa GO Station at 11:11 a.m. making all stops to Exhibition GO Station, arriving at 12:16 p.m.
• A westbound Lakeshore West train departing Union Station at 6:13 p.m. making all stops to Aldershot GO Station, arriving at 7:18 p.m.
• An eastbound Lakeshore East train departing Exhibition GO Station at 6:33 p.m. making all stops to Oshawa GO Station, arriving at 7:38 p.m.

On Sunday, July 31, 2011, GO Transit is running extra train trips between Toronto (Exhibition), and Aldershot and Oshawa GO Stations. There will be two homebound trips out of Exhibition after the end of the Lime event, one in either direction.
Lime event extra service:

• A westbound Lakeshore West train departing Union Station at 8:10 p.m. making all stops to Aldershot GO Station, arriving at 9:15 p.m.
• An eastbound Lakeshore East train departing Exhibition GO Station at 8:33 p.m. making all stops to Oshawa GO Station, arriving at 9:38 p.m.

Visit gotransit.com for information about this extra service, as well as regular schedule information. All regular GO Train and GO Bus service will not be affected; extra train-meet buses will not be provided.

 

[TOareaFan]

It's easy to GO to Scotiabank Caribbean Carnival Toronto
TORONTO, July 20, 2011 /CNW/ - For Scotiabank Caribbean Carnival Toronto events on July 30 and 31, GO Transit is selling advance specially-priced GO passes and running extra trains along the Lakeshore lines.
Starting July 20, festival revellers along the Lakeshore lines will be able to avoid line-ups and purchase specially-priced GO passes for July 30 and 31. Those attending the Grand Parade or Lime event can buy a $10 all-day GO pass between Exhibition GO Station and their home Lakeshore line station. A special $20 group pass is also available. Visit gotransit.com/caribbean to learn more.
On Saturday, July 30, 2011, GO is running extra train trips between Toronto (Exhibition), and Aldershot and Oshawa GO Stations. There will be two Toronto-bound trips before the Grand Parade, one from either direction; and two homebound trips out of Exhibition after the end of the event, one in either direction.
Grand Parade extra service:

•An eastbound Lakeshore West train departing Aldershot GO Station at 11:34 a.m. making all stops to Union Station, arriving at Exhibition GO Station at 12:30 p.m.
•A westbound Lakeshore East train departing Oshawa GO Station at 11:11 a.m. making all stops to Exhibition GO Station, arriving at 12:16 p.m.
•A westbound Lakeshore West train departing Union Station at 6:13 p.m. making all stops to Aldershot GO Station, arriving at 7:18 p.m.
•An eastbound Lakeshore East train departing Exhibition GO Station at 6:33 p.m. making all stops to Oshawa GO Station, arriving at 7:38 p.m.
On Sunday, July 31, 2011, GO Transit is running extra train trips between Toronto (Exhibition), and Aldershot and Oshawa GO Stations. There will be two homebound trips out of Exhibition after the end of the Lime event, one in either direction.
Lime event extra service:

•A westbound Lakeshore West train departing Union Station at 8:10 p.m. making all stops to Aldershot GO Station, arriving at 9:15 p.m.
•An eastbound Lakeshore East train departing Exhibition GO Station at 8:33 p.m. making all stops to Oshawa GO Station, arriving at 9:38 p.m.
Visit gotransit.com for information about this extra service, as well as regular schedule information. All regular GO Train and GO Bus service will not be affected; extra train-meet buses will not be provided.

So.....the second of the named events that they mentioned when they announced that they would experiment with "evnt" trains on the non-lakeshore lines comes along since the announcement...and still, only trains on the Lakeshore!

I know it sounds petty, and is really hard to understand if you live on the Lakeshore line....but it irks people who don't (me and others I have spoken to) that the only line that already has a train schedule to work with...gets extra trains and everyone else is asked to either drive or take a bus whose schedule will be greatly affected by the road closures caused by the event they are trying to get to.

The irony is, the two events that have now come and gone (from an announcement point of view) are Carribana and the Indy....the two who cause significant road closures on the GO Bus heavy routes to the west.......the other events work ok with buses but these two really could use some trains.

 

[Dan416]

So.....the second of the named events that they mentioned when they announced that they would experiment with "evnt" trains on the non-lakeshore lines comes along since the announcement...and still, only trains on the Lakeshore!

I know it sounds petty, and is really hard to understand if you live on the Lakeshore line....but it irks people who don't (me and others I have spoken to) that the only line that already has a train schedule to work with...gets extra trains and everyone else is asked to either drive or take a bus whose schedule will be greatly affected by the road closures caused by the event they are trying to get to.

The irony is, the two events that have now come and gone (from an announcement point of view) are Carribana and the Indy....the two who cause significant road closures on the GO Bus heavy routes to the west.......the other events work ok with buses but these two really could use some trains.

+1

Frankly they were lying about experimenting with event trains that were non-Lakeshore (did they actually ever say that?)

It's lovely for Lakeshore people, sure. But GO loves to forget that it has 5 other train lines.

 

[drum118]

+1

Frankly they were lying about experimenting with event trains that were non-Lakeshore (did they actually ever say that?)

It's lovely for Lakeshore people, sure. But GO loves to forget that it has 5 other train lines.

Maybe it will be for Santa and the EX.

 

[Dan416]

Maybe it will be for Santa and the EX.

I have my doubts. I'll believe it when I see it.