[salsa]

So this is what's been going on all the time? 4 years and we still haven't even started the EA?

 

[jje1000]

The timeline is probably timed to coincide with each consecutive provincial election.

 

[steveintoronto]

The timeline is probably timed to coincide with each consecutive provincial election.

lol...the train only runs every five years...

 

[Haljackey]

High speed rail plans may yet again be a election ploy

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/07/11/o...to-turn-the-tables-on-the-provincial-liberals

 

[jje1000]

Some interesting points by Brown- high speed rail is an election ploy (a nice shiny, possibly worthy one), but what alternatives are the Conservatives looking at? Kitchener GO RER service? Or just more highways?

Even with election talk looming and campaign messages emerging, Ontario Progressive Conservative Leader Patrick Brown isn’t ready to commit to continuing a high-speed rail project that would link London to Toronto if his party wins next year.

“I do think (high-speed rail) is valuable, I do think it’s a worthy goal and under this Liberal government it will never happen,” Brown said Tuesday at a campaign-style stop in St. Thomas.

“What I will commit to is making sure that we actually get shovels in the ground, that we spend our infrastructure dollars wisely. . . . What I promise you is that we’ll get better value for infrastructure.”

But the surprise spring announcement is hitting a sour note with Brown, who said the Liberals are only raising the high-speed rail discussion to attract votes.

“They’re using it as a re-election tool, they’re using it as a photo op. . . . The last election, the Liberals promised a study on high-speed rail. It didn’t happen and now they’re doing it again,” he said.

“If you re-elect the Liberals, you’ll be talking about it for another 20 years.”

Brown pointed to the Grits’ mismanagement of the infrastructure portfolio as a major barrier to big-ticket projects like high-speed rail.

“Maybe if we weren’t . . . repaving the 403 every two years instead of every 15 years we would have funding available for great projects like high-speed rail,” he said.

“We need to have proper funding of infrastructure, we need to have value for money.”

Responding to the PC’s criticism the high-speed rail announcement is just a vote-grabbing ploy, Matthews said it’s a multibillion-dollar build that takes time to plan properly.

“It’s important that we do it right. I would hope that Patrick Brown would appreciate that, when you take on a project of this size, you have to really invest in the planning,” she said.

Even with an election less than a year away, Matthews is firmly committed to making the Liberals’ high-speed rail happen plan — but she’s disappointed the opposition isn’t fully on board.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

He just basically did exactly what the Liberals did - refusal to deny the value of the idea outright with consideration of cost and whether it is an enterprise that should be the undertaken in isolation provincially. On top of that, if he thinks repaving the 403 less is going to net you "high speed rail" to London, he really need to think harder.

AoD

 

[jje1000]

I do hope high speed rail becomes an issue in the election and forces the Liberals to actually commit to some tighter deadlines and less nebulous scopes (not just a "High speed rail soon!" sort of thing they've been doing ever since they announced high speed rail).

On top of that, if he thinks repaving the 403 less is going to net you "high speed rail" to London, he really need to think harder.

In a sample of five highway jobs, the ministry paid $23 million in repairs after only one to three years. That’s on top of $143 million to do the paving jobs initially. All of the work should have had a life of 15 years.

It definitely doesn't add up to the cost of a high-speed rail line, but I'd be interested in seeing how much it does add up to.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I do hope high speed rail becomes an issue in the election and forces the Liberals to actually commit to some tighter deadlines and less nebulous scopes.

It definitely doesn't add up to the cost of a high-speed rail line, but I'd be interested in seeing how much it does add up to.

Honestly the only thing the anyone should do is have the plans ready - the build should be contingent on a larger, federally sponsored high(er) speed/frequency project. Anyone who go forward now as a standalone is probably just sinking money into a pit. But of course, no one will sell it that way.

Don't forget - highways not transit is the bread and butter of the PCs in the 90s onward. Plus if you don't repave, you could end up with subgrade damage that will cost a lot more to repair (which won't show up until years later, of course).

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

“We need to have proper funding of infrastructure, we need to have value for money.”

Gosh, he almost had my attention piqued for a nano-second there, until he said that. I can't even be bothered to read fully what he has stated if he's repeating nonsensical mantras.

Wake me up if he actually commits to an actual figure, where, and how.

 

[kEiThZ]

It's obvious to everyone it's an election ploy. In laws from London. People there just laugh this off. Pretty obvious to them. Sadly, like so many other issues, the Conservatives don't have to promise much to gain politically. Just criticize and they'll win votes. It's what happens when there's a strong anti-incumbent mood.

It'd be hilariously ironic if transit cost him seats in London and Kitchener, the way Hudak lost seats in Ottawa refusing to commit to Stage 2 of their LRT. Unfortunately, nobody in Kitchener or London or Guelph is treating transit as a touchstone election issue the way Ottawa voters went to bat for their LRT.

 

[Haljackey]

I do hope high speed rail becomes an issue in the election and forces the Liberals to actually commit to some tighter deadlines and less nebulous scopes (not just a "High speed rail soon!" sort of thing they've been doing ever since they announced high speed rail).

This is one of the reasons why I like minority governments. It keeps them on their toes as they have to be more accountable or face a possible election that could spell their demise.

Would HSR fly under a minority government? Maybe, depending on who is in charge and who they are supported by. Place your bets!

-----

At the very minimum let's get a firm, approved plan in place so that when federal money flows in (potentially as a economic stimulus fund), we can get shovels in the ground.

 

[kEiThZ]

I do hope high speed rail becomes an issue in the election and forces the Liberals to actually commit to some tighter deadlines and less nebulous scopes (not just a "High speed rail soon!" sort of thing they've been doing ever since they announced high speed rail).

Not just the Liberals. This is outside the GTA. I could see the Conservatives actually committing to this if it became enough of an election issue. But for now, they know that they can win seats in places like London without promising a thing.

It's really sad because London really, really needs this. Yet, voters there don't seem to care enough to actually make it a key determinant of their vote.

 

[Haljackey]

It's really sad because London really, really needs this. Yet, voters there don't seem to care enough to actually make it a key determinant of their vote.

True, but we're really skeptical of this actually happening. Just look at what happened for the 2014 election... The high speed rail promise just turned into a study. We as a country has been studying high speed rail since the 1960s with no firm plans or projects.

I think we have a pretty good excuse to be skeptical folk.

 

[kEiThZ]

We as a country has been studying high speed rail since the 1960s with no firm plans or projects.

Because we don't actually turf governments for not delivering on major infrastructure promises. You can bet the Liberals would be far more serious if there were several seats under threat in Kitchener, London, and Guelph and that threat was entirely because people were pissed about HSR not being delivered.

 

[Haljackey]

True dat

Plus if things were that serious, you'd see the other parties warm to high speed rail as well