[AndreaPalladio]

I see. Whose?

 

[cornflakes]

For the most part, places with high population densities and land space is at a premium, most of the skyscrapers will be residential. Even though they are skyscrapers, I consider a city that has many commercial skyscrapers more of a sign of wealth and prosperity than cities that just have a lot of residential skyscrapers. I think it's only natural that places with little land and high populations packed in that small space have nowhere else to go but to build up. So it's not really they are building skyscrapers because of their wealth and prosperity, but because of simply necessity.

 

[cornflakes]

And IMHO, a city like Toronto has far more growth potential than most of the major US cities, like Chicago. In fact, I think the US is going downwards and will trend downwards in the years to come unless they make major changes to their governments and policies. I see more decay of American cities, and more turmoil happening there than in Canada, where cities are growing and industries are flourishing. If Toronto isn't already, Toronto will be in the top 3 biggest and most prosperous cities in North America.

 

[Tewder]

That's a pretty broad statement. Canada is just too small and the U.S. is just too large for any sweeping comparisons. Some parts of the U.S. are booming right now.

 

[ksun]

And IMHO, a city like Toronto has far more growth potential than most of the major US cities, like Chicago. In fact, I think the US is going downwards and will trend downwards in the years to come unless they make major changes to their governments and policies. I see more decay of American cities, and more turmoil happening there than in Canada, where cities are growing and industries are flourishing. If Toronto isn't already, Toronto will be in the top 3 biggest and most prosperous cities in North America.

you mean Toronto will be larger than Los Angeles (double our size) any time soon?
I don't see Canadian cities flourishing. Canada is in recession with a 7% unemployment while the US is growing strong with 5% unemployment.

 

[Lenser]

Canada is also still, to a considerable extent, slave-linked to the American economy. If the States should take a prolonged hit, it's unreasonable to expect that we will handily weather the storm.

But as for the underlying fundamentals to the American economy, I'm not so sure that their current relative strength guarantees long-term health. What goes up must come down.

 

[TrickyRicky]

Ksun, I agree with your premise but on the point of unemployment we should be aware that Canada and the US calculate unemployment in different ways. Additionally, the labour participation rate in the US is very poor at the moment meaning the job market is arguably weak. The good thing is that the labour market in the US is improving and that helps Canada, especially the Greater Toronto Area. It is debateable if the numbers are real but current labour market data from Statscan show 157,000 jobs were created in Toronto over the last year bringing the unemployment rate down from a poor 9.2 % to a more nationally average 7.5%. Additionally the participation rate is rising. This suggests that actually Toronto is behaving like the recovering US not like the deteriorating situation in some other parts of Canada with regard to local employement.

I don't have Chicago data but to the point of the this thread construction activity in the US is likely in my opinion to out-perform construction activity in Canada over the next 5 years. That is because the US has already de-leveraged from the financial crisis while Canada has yet to do so. That creates huge latent demand in the US while Canada is likely over-built and over-leveraged. How this trend plays out in Chicago and Toronto is unknown as more construction activity in the US does not translate necessarily into construction activity in Chicago or necessarily into high-rise building. Also, as we see from the jobs numbers the boom in highrise building in Toronto was probably in an era of poor economic performance (locally in Toronto versus nationally in Canada). That means that it was more due to local structural or demographic / cultural forces than due to a good economy.

 

[Adjei]

And IMHO, a city like Toronto has far more growth potential than most of the major US cities, like Chicago. In fact, I think the US is going downwards and will trend downwards in the years to come unless they make major changes to their governments and policies. I see more decay of American cities, and more turmoil happening there than in Canada, where cities are growing and industries are flourishing. If Toronto isn't already, Toronto will be in the top 3 biggest and most prosperous cities in North America.

I swear Canadians are becoming increasingly arrogant and deluded. The US is enjoying good economic growth and has low unemployment while Canada is in a recession with a stagnant economy and increasing unemployment.

 

[Tewder]

Canada is also still, to a considerable extent, slave-linked to the American economy. If the States should take a prolonged hit, it's unreasonable to expect that we will handily weather the storm.

But as for the underlying fundamentals to the American economy, I'm not so sure that their current relative strength guarantees long-term health. What goes up must come down.

Well that's the same for Canada too... I don't know, Canada has been booming over the last decade while the U.S. hasn't. I'm not sure our economy is as tied to theirs as it once may have been. We've diversified our markets more now. If we still view ourselves as 'slaves' it's more our own debilitating psychology than anything else.

 

[Lenser]

Not meaning to suggest we're slaves. It's only a word after all, but historically the relationship has been rather symbiotic, I'm sure you'd agree. And I'm not sure if we've really diversified all that much; the energy strategy of the West has taken a body blow and America is still a huge trading partner. But yeah, our own fundamentals are as much in question as those of our friends down south.

One thing I will agree on; the excitement in this city these days is palpable. It really feels like the city is coming into its own, despite its growth pains and various instances of idiotic political paralysis.

 

[King of Kensington]

Is there a race? What is the prize for winning?

World class status (whatever that means).

 

[Skeezix]

I'm not sure our economy is as tied to theirs as it once may have been.

And I'm not sure if we've really diversified all that much [...] But yeah, our own fundamentals are as much in question as those of our friends down south.

There has been much discussion among economists this past decade about the "decoupling" of the Canadian and U.S. economies. And while a room with 100 economists will contain 100 different economic opinions, there does seem to be some consensus that, while the two economies remain linked and Canada remains dependent on its largest trading partner to the south, economic growth and decline in the U.S. does not have the same effect on the Canadian economy it once did. It obviously has an effect, but the question is one of degree and the extent to which economic conditions in Canada can differ from those in the U.S. Canada overall weathered the storm of the last U.S. recession relatively well, and conversely we are now not experiencing the same growth that the U.S. is enjoying.

 

[TrickyRicky]

Maybe my previous post was too long and confusing? It addresses many of the arguments that carried through afterwards.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Not meaning to suggest we're slaves. It's only a word after all, but historically the relationship has been rather symbiotic, I'm sure you'd agree. And I'm not sure if we've really diversified all that much; the energy strategy of the West has taken a body blow and America is still a huge trading partner. But yeah, our own fundamentals are as much in question as those of our friends down south.

One thing I will agree on; the excitement in this city these days is palpable. It really feels like the city is coming into its own, despite its growth pains and various instances of idiotic political paralysis.

Good article on Bloomberg about your industry, Lenser. Talking about the huge boom in cable TV - interviewed Cinespace - really positive. Recommended.

 

[Lenser]

I'll check it out RRR, thanks! Certainly this city has never been busier - it's a new golden age of TV, I guess. So many shows shooting here, it's crazy. I just wrapped out of one show last week and I've been offered a gig on a new one that starts in a week's time. Not all of the stuff shooting here is quality TV but the sheer quantity is undeniably impressive. Some new productions coming online are reportedly having a hard time finding seasoned pros - they're all out there on the job already. On the other hand, that also means that it's a great time to break into the industry; folks like me will not be working forever and I've already witnessed a few significant changes of the guard.

But my observations about how good it is in the city isn't limited to how it is in film and television. The city feels alive and more confident than ever. It's something to revel in. Toronto has its problems, sure - but it'll be just fine. It's a city with a vibrant presence and a positive future.