[steveve]

I would hate to burst your bubbles guys but we think Toronto is building or beautifying itself, but just got back from Chicago and I have been to Chicago many many times. It just jeeps getting prettier and prettier. From their parks to their river walks. They're just building and building. Everything looks top notch and top quality.

I don't think Toronto will ever surpass Chicago's downtown in the looks department. As you've mentioned, there are many visually stunning spaces in their downtown that simply are non-existent in Toronto, or even any other North American city for that matter.
Our city's history and geography simply do not translate into that look, nor can it replicate its grandeur.

 

[enrigue8]

I don't think Toronto will ever surpass Chicago's downtown in the looks department. As you've mentioned, there are many visually stunning spaces in their downtown that simply are non-existent in Toronto, or even any other North American city for that matter.
Our city's history and geography simply do not translate into that look, nor can it replicate its grandeur.

Well said.Even if we haven t Chicago history, we can try to copy a little their style instead of building shit.

 

[old boy]

Official Toronto is beginning to appreciate its public spaces, in its own kind of way, and this needs to be encouraged . Berszcy Park, The Grange area, the West Donlands and the overall waterfront are good examples that we're headed in a good direction. Toronto has a unique ravine geography that could be the next really big public space opportunity, as the Lower Don precinct is now showing us. Toronto will develop as its own place, as Chicago did a few generations before. Not all new projects in Toronto are as banal as we are prone to bemoan on Urban Toronto.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Official Toronto is beginning to appreciate its public spaces, in its own kind of way, and this needs to be encouraged . Berszcy Park, The Grange area, the West Donlands and the overall waterfront are good examples that we're headed in a good direction. Toronto has a unique ravine geography that could be the next really big public space opportunity, as the Lower Don precinct is now showing us. Toronto will develop as its own place, as Chicago did a few generations before. Not all new projects in Toronto are as banal as we are prone to bemoan on Urban Toronto.

They tend to be small/medium scale spaces - we don't do grandeur well here in the city (thus far). Our attempts at it tend to be half-hearted (if not half-baked).

Having said that, that's just one dimension to a city - Chicago got other fishes to fry that I would NOT be envious about.

Well said.Even if we haven t Chicago history, we can try to copy a little their style instead of building shit.

Their "style" is long past - what they are building now is no different, broadly speaking, from what you'd get anywhere else.

AoD

 

[enrigue8]

Toronto waterfront and Mississauga have the best architecture in Gta for me.

 

[Johnny Au]

We need to design Toronto to be more Pokémon-friendly. With more Pokémon, the city would be livelier with more people catching Pokémon.

 

[Euphoria]

If there was an opportunity to create something like Chicago's Michigan Ave. in Toronto, it would be along Lake Shore Blvd. with a buried Gardiner Expressway. We could've had the wide boulevards, planters, monuments, fountains, greenery. We're so reluctant to do anything bold in Toronto. Skydome was the last big gesture. There is an opportunity in the Port Lands by naturalizing the Don and making an architectural statement. There isn't much land available in the core to do much on a grand scale without a major intervention.

 

[old boy]

Euphoria, you're right about the Port Lands being the one big opportunity for the " architectural statement " that Toronto appears to avoid so assiduously. It's close enough to the downtown core and might be seen as an extension of it. I haven't heard much about Ontario Place lately, but that could be the other bookend of the core.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Euphoria, you're right about the Port Lands being the one big opportunity for the " architectural statement " that Toronto appears to avoid so assiduously. It's close enough to the downtown core and might be seen as an extension of it. I haven't heard much about Ontario Place lately, but that could be the other bookend of the core.

There is room for architectural statement in the existing corridors - Spadina, University, Jarvis - none of which has even come close to reaching their full potential in terms of public realm excellence (and to say nothing of just how bad the private realm is). The fact of the matter is, you can put all the blood and sweat into the former, but without excellence in the latter it will always be wanting (case in point - Queen's Quay).

AoD

 

[44 North]

For grand, grand architectural statements I think the Port Lands may be the one last opportunity. Maybe I'll agree that Exhbition/Ont Place could work too. For the arterial roads within downtown I can only picture something tall being that statement (which would more likely be an office/res bldg). But for grand civic structures like an opera house, art gallery, or museum, I think we need proper sightlines - which our arterial roads lack but the waterfront could do with ease.

I guess what could our next grand statement be? We have the CN Tower, Skydome, museums, art gallery, opera house... what else could we bring to the table? And whereabouts could this be? The Don delta? Or Ontario Place? Or further east at the Hearn? Edit to add: East Harbour/Unilever (which is open enough around it that it could be a good contender, and it has enough City-owned property within the precinct)?

One of the reasons I'm intrigued by Expo possibilities is that I'd like to know what exactly could it bring. Some kind of massive biome sphere structure? A pyramid of sorts? Something that no one has and we could claim bragging rights to be the first?

 

[ksun]

I think Toronto can win the games of vibrancy, safety, livability, diversity, etc., but in terms of grandeur and impressiveness, we can never match those of Chicago. People will always be more impressed by downtown Chicago than downtown Toronto, BY FAR. Chicago was a city that was built to be grand with ambition, while Toronto was put together bits and pieces gradually, which means it could be nice and cozy, but will never be grand or beautiful in a coherent manner.

University Ave and Bloor st (only between Jarvis and Avenue Road) are the closest thing to be "grand", but the former is excruciatingly boring with insurance companies and hospitals, not to mention buildings are too short for the width of the street, and the latter is very short. We can only dream of having some of the exquisite buildings in Chicago, while here, we let downtown west be dominate by green glass monotony. We have Jarvis and Spadina which should be show-piece grand streets with beautiful buildings and lively retail, but instead, we seem to be happy with mediocre architecture, with significant numbers of gaps in between, and bad public spaces (it is almost embarrassing that Allan Gardens is of the best green spot in downtown Toronto). Yonge st looks shabby mostly, but even if it were lined with condos like the Five, it will still be largely uninspiring.

We are city that always think very small, and we pretend small projects like Berzcy park or Grange Park will make the city a lot nicer. They won't. Sugar beach is encourage, but it is too small to have any noticeable impact. Even the much applauded Queen's Quay still looks drab to me. And when we design public squares, we simply can't think outside the concrete box plus some trees, as if that's all the possibilities. For example, in NPS, even the benches are concrete, large ones, in addition to concrete EVERYTHING. I remember in Vienna, the seating in front of the museums look like this

It is like our designers deliberately want the city to look boring.

 

[enrigue8]

I love the concept of vienna.
It s true that Torontonians politicians have a lack of vision.
There could be more entertaining option there.
For me Queen's Quay is the good in term architecture .
We can do better, but it fortunately the architecture of the district is pretty for eyes.
To make it more cool, it would be awesome to see something like Absolute tower.
And if 1-7 yonge and the waterfront innovation center is built,The district will be prettier.
This is one of my favorite district in term of architecture.

 

[Euphoria]

I think the city should save a billion by scrapping the Hybrid Gardiner option and turning the stretch of Lake Shore between Jarvis and the DVP into a magnificent boulevard on the scale of Michigan Avenue. This should really occur along the entire section of elevated expressway, but if this is at least done east of Jarvis, we'll have a beautiful gateway to the Port Lands. It will set the tone for that massive blank slate. Cherry Street is the first major north-south street to be developed through this area. The new streetcar ROW illustrates the possibilities for this as a grand entry to the Port Lands. To have an expressway bisect it, even some gussied up 'hybrid' version, speaks volumes about how little regard there has been in Toronto for the built environment.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I think the use of "they" and "we" in this conversation suggests we don't understand how cities work. There is no "they" and "we". Grand vision comes from grand institutions. Grand institutions create bold civic and building gestures. These gestures are always part inspiration part folly. We often admire the inspiration but ignore the folly.

People who care about grand vision often dream of being designers or planners but it's a trap. Grand visions flow from institutions not design. The designer is the tool, the visionary is the person who leads the institution and spearheads the project.

Chicago is a great example of how cities in the US do grand vision and institutions (such as cultural organizations, political dynasties, multi-national corporations, business empires, etc.) well; while being a borderline failed state socially. I am always impressed by civic gestures in big US cities; however they have to be some of the least livable urban environments in the developed world.

 

[Adjei]

Toronto doesn't know know how to do granduer well. It's just not in our dna and I doubt it ever will. Most things we do are half assed done and cheap. I went and look at the new City Hall revitalization and was less than impressed. We also don't know how to maintain things in this city. We don't like to spend money on these things and these things cost money. Look at the whining about the new stations on the Spadina extension. Millennium Park in Chicago for example cost $500 million to build. Could you ever see that much being spent on a park in Toronto?