[Admiral Beez]

We visited on the weekend ( confused the date of an upcoming plant sale) and there were many more tents than would serve as shelter for 11 individuals. Very sad state that the city doesn't seem to be addressing

The easiest fix for Allan Gardens is to do what the British do with royal parks in London. The parks, such as Hyde Park are open from 5:00 am until midnight all year round. At midnight everyone must leave.

But that’s more a parks issues than a homeless one.

Allan Gardens Revitalization Plan

For example they couldn't get funding for the Moss Park revitalisation. I believe that's cancelled now. What a shame, I was looking forward to seeing that rather large tract of park space being spruced up. Are they shelving the community centre too or is that a separate project?

urbantoronto.ca

 

[DSC]

The easiest fix for Allan Gardens is to do what the British do with royal parks in London. The parks, such as Hyde Park are open from 5:00 am until midnight all year round. At midnight everyone must leave.

But that’s more a parks issues than a homeless one.

Allan Gardens Revitalization Plan

For example they couldn't get funding for the Moss Park revitalisation. I believe that's cancelled now. What a shame, I was looking forward to seeing that rather large tract of park space being spruced up. Are they shelving the community centre too or is that a separate project?

urbantoronto.ca

Indeed, it certainly does not solve the homeless issue - it just 'encourages' the homeless to become more invisible and stop making the rest of us feel guilty by being so visible.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Indeed, it certainly does not solve the homeless issue - it just 'encourages' the homeless to become more invisible and stop making the rest of us feel guilty by being so visible.

I have no guilt because someone is homeless. But speak for yourself. How are you culpable for Toronto's homeless situation?

There's nothing wrong with Torontonians wanting their parks free of encampments. The only reason our local government is not stopping it like they did at Trinity Bellwoods and would in Queens Park or High Park is that downtown east is somehow considered skid row. It's not fair or right. If those living near High Park get a nice park, why can't those in downtown east?

 

[DSC]

I have no guilt because someone is homeless. But speak for yourself. How are you culpable for Toronto's homeless situation?

There's nothing wrong with Torontonians wanting their parks free of encampments. The only reason our local government is not stopping it like they did at Trinity Bellwoods and would in Queens Park or High Park is that downtown east is somehow considered skid row. It's not fair or right. If those living near High Park get a nice park, why can't those in downtown east?

You are misunderstanding me. As a citizen I do feel guilty that our society has failed to respond adequately to the needs of the mentally ill and addicted and that so many of them have no way of having a better place to live than camping in a park or on the street. Most people, and I include myself, prefer not to be reminded of 'unpleasant things' and just yesterday a generally very kind and thoughtful neighbour approached me as a Board member of our condo asking me why we could not move a homeless person who was squatting on the sidewalk near our front door and get them moved into the lane behind our building 'where nobody will see them".

 

[Admiral Beez]

You are misunderstanding me. As a citizen I do feel guilty that our society has failed to respond adequately to the needs of the mentally ill and addicted and that so many of them have no way of having a better place to live than camping in a park or on the street.

Guilt = culpability. Perhaps you mean you feel sad, despair or empathetic for our society’s treatment of those in need. I want to see the homeless issue dealt with through the provincial and federal government providing guaranteed permanent and supporting housing to every citizen and PR who needs one. I’d gladly accept a 50% total tax (property, income, vat) increase to see that happen, so that I can help my fellow man and get the public’s parks, sidewalks and spaces back to a semblance of pleasantness. But that doesn’t make me culpable or guilty that this isn’t happening.

 

[Mr.Tang]

I feel at the core of this semantic debate is the belief as to whether or not the issue either can or can never be solved.

 

[afransen]

I feel at the core of this semantic debate is the belief as to whether or not the issue either can or can never be solved.

It can definitely largely be solved. It's just a matter of money and effort.

 

[Rufus8]

It isn't one issue so doesn't have one answer. There is enough housing in Toronto it's just not afforable. There are also people who can't manage all it takes to maintain housing. Sibling was a professinal tenant - moved every few months, even when they got subsidised, always ended up in conflict with landlord/neighbours. Some just can't handle all those daily tasks. There is no political will to go back to confining people against their will even if the need is so apparent. We need residential institutions, housing subsidies and rooming houses just to start to make an impact.

 

[afransen]

It isn't one issue so doesn't have one answer. There is enough housing in Toronto it's just not afforable. There are also people who can't manage all it takes to maintain housing. Sibling was a professinal tenant - moved every few months, even when they got subsidised, always ended up in conflict with landlord/neighbours. Some just can't handle all those daily tasks. There is no political will to go back to confining people against their will even if the need is so apparent. We need residential institutions, housing subsidies and rooming houses just to start to make an impact.

If there was enough housing, it wouldn't be so expensive. There is a lot of pent up household formation (30 year olds living with their parents, two families sharing a unit, etc.).

 

[Mr.Tang]

It can definitely largely be solved. It's just a matter of money and effort.

I acknowledge I have not completed by Phd on this topic - but what are some places that have really solved this issue (and how transportable is that solution to us?). I can't really think of a city in North America easily. Poverty is one thing, mental health and drug addiction are complex issues I have not seen government handle well. I guess I am leaning pessimist on this.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I acknowledge I have not completed by Phd on this topic - but what are some places that have really solved this issue (and how transportable is that solution to us?).

In Singapore I did not see a single visible homeless person. AIUI, all Singaporeans are guaranteed housing - in fact all housing in Singapore, from the smallest apartment to the largest mansion is owned by the government and leased to the resident. Also, if you're not a Singapore citizen and your homeless, you're deported. So.... not really transportable I admit. I did find it very pleasant though.

 

[afransen]

I acknowledge I have not completed by Phd on this topic - but what are some places that have really solved this issue (and how transportable is that solution to us?). I can't really think of a city in North America easily. Poverty is one thing, mental health and drug addiction are complex issues I have not seen government handle well. I guess I am leaning pessimist on this.

Not looking to emulate authoritarian states like Singapore, other countries have had success. Finland for one. They use a 'housing first' strategy for addressing homelessness, rather than try to get people off drugs, employed, etc. while homeless.

Finland’s Zero Homeless Strategy: Lessons from a Success Story

By Laurence Boone, Boris Cournède, OECD Economics Department; and Marissa Plouin, OECD Directorate for Employment, Labour and Social Affairs Following a period when homele…

oecdecoscope.blog

 

[Towered]

As usual, Nordic countries leading the way. How do they consistently manage to do this?

 

[afransen]

As usual, Nordic countries leading the way. How do they consistently manage to do this?

They don't have the dismissive attitude to the positive role government intervention can play in society that the NA right has, and they don't have the complacent attitude that NA left has toward effectiveness and efficiency of government.

 

[gabe]

Now we got to deal with thousands of homeless migrants. Many of them will end up in Toronto. Quebec is sending bus loads of them to Ontario. Where exactly are we going to house them????

Migrant encampments will pop like you see in NYC. What mess NYC is in. Too many asylum seekers not enough housing.

Niagara Falls mayor want's them out of the hotels before tourist season starts.

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