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If the City has $$ to spare it might be better for the restaurants and stores if they got $$ and help to update their websites to say that getting to and from King is now MUCH easier and faster by TRANSIT!
 
If King ends up being car-free, or at the least in its current state of very limited cars, would there by any comparable street in North America? I'm not talking about a short stretches in downtown retail areas like Granville St in Vancouver but long stretch like this used only by transit
 
amnesiajune said:
This is a really dumb talking point. Even if every person in the city claimed that credit, and they all used it instead of paying for Green P parking (as opposed to using it instead of parking at a privately-owned lot) it would cost them $27 million. That's a third of the profit and taxes that they give to the city.

It'll cost a few million dollars at most.
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I don't think you get my point.
 
steveintoronto said:
Huh?
Why Millennials Are Driving Less Than Previous Generations Did at ...
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/07/the-clearest...yet-for.../398366/
Jul 13, 2015 - The ongoing discussion about Millennial driving trends is not about whether they're declining, but why. It's clear to all that young people are driving less today than they did in the past. But the reasons for these shifts in car use are what remain locked in seemingly endless debate. Two theories lead the ..........
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Those studies say two things:

1. People in general are less likely to have a drivers license than they used to be (to quote one of your links: "Among 25- to 34-year-olds here, 92 per cent had a licence in 1999; 10 years later, 87 per cent did. In Canada, this decline occurred in every age group from 16 to 54.")
2. Young people are less likely to own a car than older people (as they always have been).

Those are both true, but what's also true is that young people are just as likely to drive and to own a car as they always have been.
 
mrgrieves said:
If King ends up being car-free, or at the least in its current state of very limited cars, would there by any comparable street in North America? I'm not talking about a short stretches in downtown retail areas like Granville St in Vancouver but long stretch like this used only by transit
Click to expand...

7 Street in Calgary is about as long as the Bathurst-Jarvis King Street section. It's not really a success though. It gets called a "transit ghetto" since nobody really uses the street for anything except taking the LRT. As the area was built up everything was built with its main frontage on the surrounding streets.
 
mrgrieves said:
If King ends up being car-free, or at the least in its current state of very limited cars, would there by any comparable street in North America? I'm not talking about a short stretches in downtown retail areas like Granville St in Vancouver but long stretch like this used only by transit
Click to expand...

The 16th Street Mall in Denver was converted to transit and city vehicles only in 1982 and seemed to work wonderfully when I was there 2 years ago. Despite the lack of regular traffic, the street was always bustling with activity. If it can work there, it can work here in opinion. It just needs to be executed properly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16th_Street_Mall
 
mrgrieves said:
Even if the business owners are suffering because of the pilot, as a whole it obviously benefits the city much more to keep the street as a transit priority corridor. But just because more people are riding the streetcar, does that mean more people are using the street? In other words say I have a retail store at Yonge and Glencairn. Thousands of people are "using the street" via the subway but they are just whizzing by it underground. I wonder if it can be argued all these streetcar riders are whizzing by the businesses on their way from work to home in Liberty Village for example. The only difference, albeit it is significant, being that streetcars use the street and they stop more frequently. I'm by no means an expert on this but this is a dramatic change for the street and I imagine it takes a long time for users of the street to adapt. It may that tourist trap restaurants don't make sense anymore there but some other type of business does.

Most of the streetcar streets are vibrant, but this is the first one that for all intents and purposes is car-free.

This pilot was a long time coming and I hope the city doesn't cave to a handful of restaurant owners and allow cars at night and weekends.
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Subway riders don't use the street. They're underground, visually isolated from businesses.

Streetcar riders do use the street. They see the businesses as the streetcar travels, in many cases at least twice a day. Furthermore, these tens of thousands of passengers must use the sidewalks to get to the streetcar, and they must spend several minutes standing around at stops waiting for the streetcar, putting thousands of more eyes on your business.
 
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mrgrieves said:
If King ends up being car-free, or at the least in its current state of very limited cars, would there by any comparable street in North America? I'm not talking about a short stretches in downtown retail areas like Granville St in Vancouver but long stretch like this used only by transit
Click to expand...
There's lots in Canada, even more in the US.
Transit Mall Case Studies - National Association of City Transportation ...

amnesiajune said:
Those are both true, but what's also true is that young people are just as likely to drive and to own a car as they always have been.
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No they're not, not even close.
Young and carless - Macleans.ca
www.macleans.ca/economy/business/young-and-carless/
Jan 17, 2015 - A recent study out of McGill University found young people are far more likely to take public transit than other generations—a decision no doubt driven partly by cost, with youth unemployment in Canada ... Of course, just because condo-dwellers are less likely to own cars doesn't mean they don't drive at all.

I listed quite a number of links prior.

kotsy said:
The 16th Street Mall in Denver was converted to transit and city vehicles only in 1982 and seemed to work wonderfully when I was there 2 years ago. Despite the lack of regular traffic, the street was always bustling with activity. If it can work there, it can work here in opinion. It just needs to be executed properly.
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Indeed, "executed properly" being key.

TheTigerMaster said:
Subway riders don't use the street. They're underground, visually isolated from visitors.

Streetcar riders do use the street. They see the businesses as the streetcar travels, in many cases at least twice a day. Furthermore, these tens of thousands of passengers must use the sidewalks to get to the streetcar, and they must spend several minutes standing around at stops waiting for the streetcar, putting thousands of more eyes on your business.
Click to expand...
This is exactly why the timed transfers and passes issued with parking tags, or the tags themselves, would make a radical difference. See something you like? Get off, browse, get back on. And do it again and again for the time period allowed.

It's an absolute no-brainer.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Subway riders don't use the street. They're underground, visually isolated from businesses.

Streetcar riders do use the street. They see the businesses as the streetcar travels, in many cases at least twice a day. Furthermore, these tens of thousands of passengers must use the sidewalks to get to the streetcar, and they must spend several minutes standing around at stops waiting for the streetcar, putting thousands of more eyes on your business.
Click to expand...

When Line 2 opened, merchants on Bloor and Danforth complained that they lost signficant business, because there were no more streetcars full of passengers going by their store
 
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