[DSC]

They would have to "lease" that space from the city to use it, I'm assuming.

Yes, there are fees involved - they MAY have been reduced (or forgiven??) during covid but there ARE fees.

 

[drum118]

Cross post

Maybe we should use this when King Gets rebuilt

This was sent to me and no idea where it is located. Interesting to know what the poles are made out to allow them to show the light as well cost and life cycle

 

[Jonny5]

Cross post

Maybe we should use this when King Gets rebuilt

This was sent to me and no idea where it is located. Interesting to know what the poles are made out to allow them to show the light as well cost and life cycle

A gut feeling I had was that photo was from Istanbul, and some online searching appears to show those are used in several cities in Turkey.
One note is that traffic signals like these are far less common there than here, so perhaps they are needed the lighting for emphasis these are real and you should obey them.
The poles are just regular steel poles with LED strips attached same as you can buy to put in your house or on the back of your TV to make light effects, though slightly higher quality, and I assume with a protective cover on them.

 

[drum118]

A gut feeling I had was that photo was from Istanbul, and some online searching appears to show those are used in several cities in Turkey.
One note is that traffic signals like these are far less common there than here, so perhaps they are needed the lighting for emphasis these are real and you should obey them.
The poles are just regular steel poles with LED strips attached same as you can buy to put in your house or on the back of your TV to make light effects.

my quick search came up empty. I found many cities with far less traffic lights than here as well no stop sign intersections, even side streets. Noticed that on my 2012 trip the first time as well this year.

Didn't think of the LED strips

Now can we come up with a strip to say no through traffic??

 

[max]

Not sure how those light strips will stop through traffic from proceeding when not permitted, which is what I consider the main challenge for whatever we permanently build on King Street.

One of the successes of the pilot was police enforcement of through traffic on King. To me that says we need some sort of automated enforcement. Since I don't think the current provincial government could be bothered to amend the HTA to allow this, I think the city has to find a way to give all through traffic a red light so we can just use red light cameras to enforce the law.

 

[drum118]

Not sure how those light strips will stop through traffic from proceeding when not permitted, which is what I consider the main challenge for whatever we permanently build on King Street.

One of the successes of the pilot was police enforcement of through traffic on King. To me that says we need some sort of automated enforcement. Since I don't think the current provincial government could be bothered to amend the HTA to allow this, I think the city has to find a way to give all through traffic a red light so we can just use red light cameras to enforce the law.

If the bar system was use as well having the streetcar put on the 4 way flashers would cut down some of the current through traffic.

The main issue is when traffic is on the tail of the streetcar, driver can't see the traffic lights, let alone signs. Still say traffic should stop further back where no through traffic is not allow so drivers can stop going through that intersection if they are obeying the law. Those who do go through should be catch on the red light style camera. Some signage should be place before the intersection for no through traffic,

 

[W. K. Lis]

Near Side Signals: Thinking Outside the Pedestrian Box​

From link.

How often do you think about stoplights? Not just to acknowledge that the light is green or red or how many times the “Don’t Walk” hand on the pedestrian crosswalk counter has flashed so you know how long you have to cross, but the design and placement of that signal. (The red hand flashes 17 times at the freeway exit intersection on the Lowry Hill Greenway on Lyndale Avenue, for reference.) I will grant, the readership of this fine blog is more likely to have thought about this than most.

I have had a growing irritation with placement of signals over the past few years, particularly after my most recent trip to visit a former host family in Austria, where I lived off and on for almost three years. Like many others who have commented on differences between European and American street design, I was struck by how much safer I feel as a pedestrian there. A part of that was because the crosswalk was significantly less blocked than the average U.S. intersection. That could relate to cultural norms, more driving training (getting a license in Austria is both time consuming and expensive) or a stronger restriction on right turns on red (generally not allowed anywhere), but another aspect was simply where signals are placed at intersections. Most often, they are on the near side of the intersection. If there is a signal in the middle or on the far side of the intersection, it is supplemental, not primary.

What does that mean for user safety? Vehicles see the light sooner before reaching the intersection, which makes it less likely that cars run red lights. Importantly, though, vehicles need to stop farther back to see the signal, meaning that the crosswalk is kept clear for pedestrian use. In Austria and Switzerland, a stop bar serves as an extra indicator of where cars should stay, but the signal placement itself is doing most of the work. This intentional design choice makes it safer for multiple road users to interact in the same space. Pedestrians have less fear of cars inching forward and encroaching on the crosswalk, and cars are less likely to run red lights because they can see the signal sooner. Keeping cars farther back also allows for a tighter turning radius for a vehicle coming from a perpendicular road, allowing intersections to be smaller, use fewer materials and have shorter crossing distances for pedestrians.

Cars regularly pull into the crosswalk, particularly when trying to turn on red. Pedestrians are forced to go around and hope that the driver is watching and doesn’t accelerate. Author photo

Stop bars do little on their own to prevent cars from creeping forward at intersections. Author photo

Pedestrians often have to navigate six lanes to cross an intersection. Cars blocking their space makes this all the more daunting. Author photo

 

[afransen]

Not sure how those light strips will stop through traffic from proceeding when not permitted, which is what I consider the main challenge for whatever we permanently build on King Street.

One of the successes of the pilot was police enforcement of through traffic on King. To me that says we need some sort of automated enforcement. Since I don't think the current provincial government could be bothered to amend the HTA to allow this, I think the city has to find a way to give all through traffic a red light so we can just use red light cameras to enforce the law.

Can't they just add a green right turn arrow, and a separate transit signal for the streetcar? Why would this require any HTA amendments--it could all be done with standard signals. You may still want red light cameras for enforcement, but I think compliance would be much better if the signals were clearer.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Can't they just add a green right turn arrow, and a separate transit signal for the streetcar? Why would this require any HTA amendments--it could all be done with standard signals. You may still want red light cameras for enforcement, but I think compliance would be much better if the signals were clearer.

Other jurisdictions have left turn red and amber arrows, transit specific signals (without verbage signs that add to sign clutter), and cobblestones between the tracks to nudge motorists off the tracks. Also need no right turns on red within the city limits, like Montréal, New York City, (soon) Washington D.C., and all of Europe.

 

[Jonny5]

The white bollards are being replaced with taller orange versions with more reflective strips.

 

[Jonny5]

The white bollards are being replaced with taller orange versions with more reflective strips.
View attachment 436412

Staying true to "Toronto half-assed" style, they are only replacing the missing bollards, so now there is a hodgepodge at most stops, some with three white and one orange, some with three orange and one white... etc.

 

[DSC]

Staying true to "Toronto half-assed" style, they are only replacing the missing bollards, so now there is a hodgepodge at most stops, some with three white and one orange, some with three orange and one white... etc.

There are those around here who think Toronto needs more colour. They, at least, should be pleased!

 

[Northern Light]

Staying true to "Toronto half-assed" style, they are only replacing the missing bollards, so now there is a hodgepodge at most stops, some with three white and one orange, some with three orange and one white... etc.

FWIW, permanent improvements will be made to King in the next few years, and those will see permanent curb extensions for the stops (above the road grade).

Personally, I'd really like to see consideration given to level boarding where everspace permits (you need wide sidewalks , minimum 5M I would argue).

Elsewise, I'd like to see the curb extensions get landscaping at each end, not high, just some nice perennial flowers and short shrubs, low-maintenance.

 

[afransen]

FWIW, permanent improvements will be made to King in the next few years, and those will see permanent curb extensions for the stops (above the road grade).

Personally, I'd really like to see consideration given to level boarding where everspace permits (you need wide sidewalks , minimum 5M I would argue).

Elsewise, I'd like to see the curb extensions get landscaping at each end, not high, just some nice perennial flowers and short shrubs, low-maintenance.

Why wouldn't they be able to have level boarding all along the corridor? Just have the roadway raise up to level boarding height at the stop., and add a tactile strip so people don't tumble off it.

Seems remarkable to me that no designs have been shared for the permanent facilities given these improvements are coming up.

 

[Northern Light]

Why wouldn't they be able to have level boarding all along the corridor? Just have the roadway raise up to level boarding height at the stop., and add a tactile strip so people don't tumble off it.

Seems remarkable to me that no designs have been shared for the permanent facilities given these improvements are coming up.

The challenge is the differential height between a level platform and the adjacent sidewalk. City rules demand a minimum of 2.1M clearance (room for 2 people using mobility aids to pass one another).

Practically, at many points on King, you really require much wider spaces. A platform also has a minimum width. On King, those platforms are extensions from the sidewalk and would therefore replace what was once a travel lane on a road, likely
about 3.3M or so, though this will vary along the route.

That's ample, providing you have sufficient room on the sidewalk in behind. They would have that room on many stretches, but there are narrower sidewalks on parts of King where it may be more of a challenge.

Toronto curb height ranges from 100mm-170mm typically, while the Flexity in Toronto has a 350mm, as I recall; so you're looking at 180mm-250mm over Toronto sidewalk height.

That's a gap of up to 10 inches for the metrically challenged.