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lenaitch said:
Do people have to be Toronto-bound to be considered "commuting to work"? I suspect that more Midland/Penetang residents work in Barrie or Orillia that the GTA (although apparently they don't want to take the bus to do it). Georgian College and RVH are two of Barrie's largest employers - and the buses stop there.
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It is not about having to be, but, if the goal is one day an extension of the line then having some heading south of Barrie would be a draw.

Another thing to consider is by not going all the way to the downtown bus terminal, it is not even a draw for those commuting to Barrie for work. Tome,these routes feel more like a glorified school bus than much else.
 
During the summer, correct me if I am wrong, but Via runs all their equipment that can run.

During the winter, they pair back the consists. I understand some of that is for maintenance while others are simply a cost savings. If a particular LDR gets sold out during the winter, would Via add more to the consist?
 
lenaitch said:
I sure hope the people who are going to be the target of the business case see some economic merit in it - I certainly don't. I'd be interested in seeing what they claim for a revenue stream.
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I am guessing it is similar to those that use the Sudbury - White River train. There really are no towns along the way,besides SSM. With it not able to get to Oba, it won't connect to the Canadian as it will only be extended to Oba Lake, which is south of Oba.
 
micheal_can said:
I am guessing it is similar to those that use the Sudbury - White River train. There really are no towns along the way,besides SSM. With it not able to get to Oba, it won't connect to the Canadian as it will only be extended to Oba Lake, which is south of Oba.
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You know the only reason White River-Sudbury service exists because it is mandated. Without that protection I suspect it would have been discontinued decades ago. At least it connects two places that are, well, places.
 
lenaitch said:
You know the only reason White River-Sudbury service exists because it is mandated. Without that protection I suspect it would have been discontinued decades ago. At least it connects two places that are, well, places.
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Oh I know how little it is needed in the grand scheme of things. I compare it to an 8xx series highway in Ontario. They are used, but they are mainly bush roads that are likely not even paved. That train does not make the trip from Chapleau or White River to Sudbury any quicker, but it gives people access to the back country.

So, if we look at a SSM - Oba Lake train, it will provide a reliable route into the back country in the area. If it were available, 2-3 RDCs would likely be sufficient for the foreseeable future. Not sure what 'modern' equipment could be used, especially if they cannot wye it. If there is a siding, a baggage car and a coach would be enough with 2 engines back to back to switch ends.

It will be interesting how this potential future service plays out.
 
Islington Express Bus said:
Can someone explain to me why the Sudbury/White River train exists? It seems completely pointless to me.
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In a short answer,many of the places that it stops, you cannot get there by any roads. So, unless they portage through a series of lakes and rivers, those places would become isolated. Whether or not that is a good enough reason to keep is would be a different discussion.
 
Islington Express Bus said:
Can someone explain to me why the Sudbury/White River train exists? It seems completely pointless to me.
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The short answer is, the federal government tells it to and funds it to as part of its 'regional and remote services' mandate, similar to, say, the northern Quebec of Jasper-Prince Rupert services.

I don't know the definitive history but I suspect that when Canadian service was moved from CP (which this train traverses) to CN, it left some rail dependent settlements stranded. I supposed they could have said, and still could say at some point, 'too bad - so sad'. That's what happened when Algoma Central/Wisconsin Central/CN (I forget who owned it at the time) cancelled to SSM-Hearst passenger train. It wasn't a VIA service but did receive federal funding, which was pulled.
 
This question was posed over on a different thread. This thread would be more appropriate to answer it.
lenaitch said:
Charlevoix was a tourist train, not a passenger service. Should VIA takeover RMR and the Algoma Canyon trains as well? Neither of them ever were passenger routes serving the travelling public or enroute communities.
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Right now, they are successful operations. If they are at risk of shutting down, then, yes, Via should takeover.
Does that mean that if Via takes it over it should be run the same as when Via wuss not running it? No.

Will it operate the same as it did? One would assume that the reason it has to shut down is due to how it is operated, so some changed should be expected.What those changes would be would be up to the bean counters in Via.
 
smallspy said:
Why?
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In a simple reason, once it is gone,it is gone. Whether it be equipment, stations, skilled employees, etc, once the last train runs, all of that and more are gone.
Maybe the success of it would be if it operated differently.
For example, had the Charlevoix gone to the Gare du Palais and connected with the rest of the NA network, it may have attracted more passengers.
Another example would be for the Agawa Canyon train. Since there is a group of people who want a train along the route extended to Oba Lake, this could be operated in conjunction of it.
For the RMR, Maybe the problem with it is you need to spend a night in a hotel and you cannot do both ways.

Point is, maybe the problem is that the type of service is the problem.
 
micheal_can said:
In a simple reason, once it is gone,it is gone. Whether it be equipment, stations, skilled employees, etc, once the last train runs, all of that and more are gone
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If that is your rationale, we would keep running trains to prairie ghost towns. With nobody riding.

The whole point of making economic decisions is to derive the most utility from the money spent. Things that don't deliver utility do get shed. We may mourn a few, but then we move on.

One can make an individual sad story about the wilderness resident losing their train...,but is that utility worth the expenditure?

micheal_can said:
.
Maybe the success of it would be if it operated differently.
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RMTR is run very well, thank you. And generates lots of wealth. But it is not transportation infrastructure . Mostly it's a tourism attraction. Sure, passengers get a ride to a destination, but the big utility is the experience. You could not shift much of the Calgary-Vancouver air or highway business to RMTR by running it differently.

micheal_can said:
For example, had the Charlevoix gone to the Gare du Palais and connected with the rest of the NA network, it may have attracted more passengers.
Another example would be for the Agawa Canyon train. Since there is a group of people who want a train along the route extended to Oba Lake, this could be operated in conjunction of it.
For the RMR, Maybe the problem with it is you need to spend a night in a hotel and you cannot do both ways.

Point is, maybe the problem is that the type of service is the problem.
Click to expand...

RMTR runs both ways, and you can ride it both ways (if you can afford it).

Switching RMTR to an overnight train would be a disaster.... half the scenery goes by in the dark, and your train capacity (hence revenue) falls dramatically, and your overhead costs soar. The beauty of RMTR is it's an all-coach train with high seat density and simple (relatively) equipment. For the customer, sleeping in a motel in a bed that doesn't rock and roll in a much more spacious room is quite acceptable, because you get a second day's worth of scenery and first class service.

- Paul

PS: I got curious and turned off "ignore", to my regret. It's going back on. Not much serious discussion going on here.
 
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