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spider

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http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/13/rink-stink

Boosters of that Big Shiny 4 floor glass rink on Commissioners Street that was all the rage a year ago can go to school on this news.

Wasn't the Toronto Maple Leaf Hockey Club's need for a practice facility the prime mover for this project?
 
I'm certainly not going to give the Toronto Sun income by clicking on one of their articles. It doesn't really matter what they write, it's not like anyone would ever take what they write seriously.

Can you describe the story, instead of simply shilling for the Sun?
 
Will you believe the story when it appears in scripture (The STAR) tonight.

This just in - my wife pointed out that the same information is in todays STAR so it must be true. Our canary gets the paper next, I'll ask his opinion.
 
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MLSE should be running their own facilities, not the city.

This arena should be sold.
 
Will you believe the story when it appears in scripture (The STAR) tonight.

This just in - my wife pointed out that the same information is in todays STAR so it must be true. Our canary gets the paper next, I'll ask his opinion.
My request was for you to summarize the story, rather than simply posting a link to an article without telling us what the point is.
 
Levy's spin on this story is ridiculous. Council -- including current Mayor Rob Ford -- voted to guarantee a loan for the construction of a new 4-pad arena in Mimico. The arena was built and managed by a private sector company, though apparently not very well as they are now in dire financial straits.

Rather than let the arena go bankrupt, staff is recommending that the city take control of management. After stabilizing the arena's finances, the city could then look for a buyer.

I don't know a lot about the details of the staff recommendation, but my initial reaction is that the recommendation isn't a great one. Given that MLSE relies on the area for its practice facilities, surely the city could twist their arm and get them to contribute some cash in the short-term. How easy would it be for the Leafs and Marlies to find another suitable practice facility?
 
Huh? What's the Lakeshore Lions getting in over their head have anything to do with an ice rink in the Portlands?

The City spending my money chasing a market that does not exist at sustainable prices. I expect at least one of these guys at the planning stage to take a look around and ask why the successful private enterprise people haven`t built a new rink in years.
 
Levy's spin ...
Levy? I'm glad I didn't click on the article. I'm not sure why she isn't in jail after accepting cash payments from Rob Ford.

I have a hard time seeing how a private ice rink in this city can't break even. Hopefully we don't see city funds used to bail out a private operation!
 
Levy's spin on this story is ridiculous. Council -- including current Mayor Rob Ford -- voted to guarantee a loan for the construction of a new 4-pad arena in Mimico. The arena was built and managed by a private sector company, though apparently not very well as they are now in dire financial straits.

Rather than let the arena go bankrupt, staff is recommending that the city take control of management. After stabilizing the arena's finances, the city could then look for a buyer.

I don't know a lot about the details of the staff recommendation, but my initial reaction is that the recommendation isn't a great one. Given that MLSE relies on the area for its practice facilities, surely the city could twist their arm and get them to contribute some cash in the short-term. How easy would it be for the Leafs and Marlies to find another suitable practice facility?

Pretty easy actually. They could juggle, if need be, between Ricoh and ACC (it is essentially what they did before the Lion's Club proposed/built the Mastercard). The facility was not built for the Leafs but signing them up as anchor tenant gave it some momentum and profile. The cost of the project, however, simply led to a debt level that was not sustainable given the potential income streams. Essentially you have income from the Leafs and the rental of ice.....and you have a bunch of community hours you have to give away (that was in exchange for some land from the school board I think).

I think the point someone was trying to make about the Porltlands is a good one. If a tradditional 4 pad arena with an anchor tenant (who generate income for the place in non-peak daytime hours) cannot support the loan generated by a $40 million (+/-) construction cost....what hope does a hi-rise/stacked arena (leading to higher construction costs no doubt) have of generating that income without said anchor/non-prime time tenant?
 
I have a hard time seeing how a private ice rink in this city can't break even. Hopefully we don't see city funds used to bail out a private operation!

The City spending my money chasing a market that does not exist at sustainable prices. I expect at least one of these guys at the planning stage to take a look around and ask why the successful private enterprise people haven`t built a new rink in years.

As Holyday says, the ice is rented at market prices, apparently, except for two groups -- MLSE, which pays a yearly flat fee, and the Toronto school board, which gets free ice. Well, you could kick out the Maple Leafs and kids and rent that time as well, and you might cover the deficit. However, it seems that the issue is that they built a Cadillac to attract the Leafs, and now can't service the debt. It's not the revenue that's the issue, it's the costs (i.e. the debt servicing charges.)

That would not have been the case if they had built a much smaller, more cost effective four-pad as was first proposed in the Portlands.

As to the argument about 'private enterprise ice', lots of rinks have been built -- but you build them where land is cheap -- Vaughan. Why waste valuable land downtown to build a rink when you could build other, better, more revenue producing things.

Finally -- arenas are an interesting thing. On one level, they're private enterprises. On another, they're more equivalent to parks (you can say the same about swimming pools, right?) So, when Leaside puts together a plan to twin their rink, it's a PPP in the greatest sense of the word and lots of negotiations go on. I don't think anyone would build another Rinx, because the city wouldn't allow you to build something so crappy these days (for fire and stomach safety reasons, if nothing else!)
 
I have a hard time seeing how a private ice rink in this city can't break even.

Precisely the mindset that got us into this debacle.

If ice rinks were profitable they would be as common as donut shops.
 
I don't think the ice time is the problem -- it's bringing in higher revenues than expected. The issue is the debt (interest rates are rising, loans are coming due) and the failure to rent out commercial space in the complex.

If the city takes over, the debt can be reissued at a lower rate which will at least allow things to stabilize.

Either way, I'm not sure this qualifies as a 'debacle.'
 
Is there much demand for ice time during school hours, other than by the Maple Leafs and Marlies?

Good question. Leaside rents some hours (I've played in a game organized by the realtors at Re/Max Hallmark on Mondays around lunch time) but it's definitely 'non-peak'. It's the peak hours for kids (5-8pm weekdays + weekends) that are extremely crowded.
 

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