[ssiguy2]

I happen to agree with the notion of taking personal responsibility for one's actions and many don't and then bitch at the gov't when they feel the repercussions of those actions.
At the same time things are not black and white. Runaways are usually running away from violent and abusive parents. They leave and then get tricked into drugs often by sticking the drugs in their drinks and they are hooked. These bastards then pimp them out less they be beaten to near death and feed them just enough drugs to keep their addiction going.
Often their parents are drug dealers. Many kids are subjected to sexual violence which causes long term trauma.
Many kids have little chance from day one...................fetal alcohol syndrome. Even if the mother goes straight one week after birth then damage is done. Even small amounts of liquor can have life long effects on the child. This is one of the reasons why natives seem to get no where despite free everything. It is also hard to detect because the kids may be nice, socialable, and pleasant kids. Fetal AS has exactly the effect of we are talking about..........it has dire effects on the ability of the brain to for see long term consequences of actions. They, quite literally, cannot understand why doing X may lead to the negative consequences of Y.
This is a horror story on native reserves and why FAS has lead to such conditions for natives on reserve and when they leave. This is why it is estimated why 35% to 40% of all in mates in Canada suffer from some form of FAS.
Another potential issue for unforseen economic problems is disability. I can certainly use myself as an example.
I am from a nice white upper middle class family and both my parents are well educated. I worked my way thru school and got my BA. I did all this while dealing with my epilepsy. Moved to BC and got a good gov't job and then wham..............my epilepsy got beyond out of control. My meds started to become useless. I had to try all kinds of meds for the next few years and having seizures non-stops. I was having up to one grand mal seizure a week and usually having at least 100 petit mals a day. One day I had 300. My employee short term medical leave benefits ran out and you almost have to be dead for long term, I am now on gov't disability which, thankfully, pays for all my meds.
Things are much, much, much better now but due to a combination of my meds and milder epilepsy employment is nearly impossible. Despite being highly intelligent and educated I am unemployable due to the harsh side effects of my meds. My tremeurs are so bad that I can't type {despite all my entrys I can still only type about 5 words a minute}. I cannot write at all due to my trmers , I can't drive or use any equipment, go near heat due to the danger, can't lift anything over my head. and cannot do anything that requires manual dexterity.
I am not writing this as a sob story or sympathy card but simply to show how not everything is quite as it appears. I HATE it when people say "you don't look disabled". I NEVER would have imagined I would find myself in the position I am in. but life is like that. Shit happens and you move on.
We just don't know what is around the corner and that's why we have a social safety net but unfortunately some do abuse it.

 

[archanfel]

I happen to agree with the notion of taking personal responsibility for one's actions and many don't and then bitch at the gov't when they feel the repercussions of those actions.
At the same time things are not black and white. Runaways are usually running away from violent and abusive parents. They leave and then get tricked into drugs often by sticking the drugs in their drinks and they are hooked. These bastards then pimp them out less they be beaten to near death and feed them just enough drugs to keep their addiction going.
Often their parents are drug dealers. Many kids are subjected to sexual violence which causes long term trauma.
Many kids have little chance from day one...................fetal alcohol syndrome. Even if the mother goes straight one week after birth then damage is done. Even small amounts of liquor can have life long effects on the child. This is one of the reasons why natives seem to get no where despite free everything. It is also hard to detect because the kids may be nice, socialable, and pleasant kids. Fetal AS has exactly the effect of we are talking about..........it has dire effects on the ability of the brain to for see long term consequences of actions. They, quite literally, cannot understand why doing X may lead to the negative consequences of Y.
This is a horror story on native reserves and why FAS has lead to such conditions for natives on reserve and when they leave. This is why it is estimated why 35% to 40% of all in mates in Canada suffer from some form of FAS.
Another potential issue for unforseen economic problems is disability. I can certainly use myself as an example.
I am from a nice white upper middle class family and both my parents are well educated. I worked my way thru school and got my BA. I did all this while dealing with my epilepsy. Moved to BC and got a good gov't job and then wham..............my epilepsy got beyond out of control. My meds started to become useless. I had to try all kinds of meds for the next few years and having seizures non-stops. I was having up to one grand mal seizure a week and usually having at least 100 petit mals a day. One day I had 300. My employee short term medical leave benefits ran out and you almost have to be dead for long term, I am now on gov't disability which, thankfully, pays for all my meds.
Things are much, much, much better now but due to a combination of my meds and milder epilepsy employment is nearly impossible. Despite being highly intelligent and educated I am unemployable due to the harsh side effects of my meds. My tremeurs are so bad that I can't type {despite all my entrys I can still only type about 5 words a minute}. I cannot write at all due to my trmers , I can't drive or use any equipment, go near heat due to the danger, can't lift anything over my head. and cannot do anything that requires manual dexterity.
I am not writing this as a sob story or sympathy card but simply to show how not everything is quite as it appears. I HATE it when people say "you don't look disabled". I NEVER would have imagined I would find myself in the position I am in. but life is like that. Shit happens and you move on.
We just don't know what is around the corner and that's why we have a social safety net but unfortunately some do abuse it.

Sorry to hear about your ordeal and I wish you the best.

No argument there. There are always exceptional cases. And I am certainly not arguing for doing away with social safety net altogether.

 

[Admiral Beez]

This is why I opted in to my work place Longterm Disability coverage, as well as buy a monthly top up from RBC The Edge.

 

[tkip]

Absolutely agree that people in general don't understand the reality of someone young runing away from home due to domestic situations.

Often nasty and with nowhere to go, they get scooped up by the wrong elements waiting to prey upon them and then it's years trying to climb out of that hole. And more than a few never do. This is why supportive and functioning families are do damn important and you only have to look to other communites where you can see the chaos that results when the family unit breaks down.

We have to eventually at some point face the fact that across north america, something has gone terribly wrong with the decline of families in general and the dysfunctional mess that has become the norm. And about personal responsibility? I'm a big believer in code of coduct and a strong moral code to guide people and this includes parents and society holding their children and others more accountable for their decisions and acts.

It's not a secret that I'm of the opinion that we're far too soft on people now on the grounds that we can't hurt their feelings or that it's too PC sensitive to acknowledge bad behaviour that needs to be corrected.

 

[archanfel]

Absolutely agree that people in general don't understand the reality of someone young runing away from home due to domestic situations.

Often nasty and with nowhere to go, they get scooped up by the wrong elements waiting to prey upon them and then it's years trying to climb out of that hole. And more than a few never do. This is why supportive and functioning families are do damn important and you only have to look to other communites where you can see the chaos that results when the family unit breaks down.

We have to eventually at some point face the fact that across north america, something has gone terribly wrong with the decline of families in general and the dysfunctional mess that has become the norm. And about personal responsibility? I'm a big believer in code of coduct and a strong moral code to guide people and this includes parents and society holding their children and others more accountable for their decisions and acts.

It's not a secret that I'm of the opinion that we're far too soft on people now on the grounds that we can't hurt their feelings or that it's too PC sensitive to acknowledge bad behaviour that needs to be corrected.

And who is to make this "strong moral code"? Even the old testament was out dated. They had to issue a new one to show God wasn't that vengeful after all.

 

[tkip]

And who is to make this "strong moral code"? Even the old testament was out dated. They had to issue a new one to show God wasn't that vengeful after all.

Burying our heads in the sand and pretending everything is fine isn't a solution. North American society and culture is ripe with too many problems.

You don't have to look far to find endless examples of this. Basically, we've become this massive dysfunctional society compounded by an esculation of more bad behaviour on top of bad behaviour.

Stemming from lack of morals, lack of good parenting, lack of proper examples/role models, an obsessive worship of excess, materialistic induldges, the cult of individualism and sense of entiltement. Adding to this is the complete lack of personal responsibilty that too many parents aren't instilling in their children anymore, allowing disrespectful behaviour from them to flourish.

Parents need to discipline their kids better. Tough love actually works and is sometimes necessary though it's considered too damaging to kids and their self esteem these days.

Any parent that allows their kid/teen to disrespect them, cave in to their demands or tries to be their "best" friend needs to have their head examined. People need to hear the word "no" more often and understand that they actually have to work and earn their own way without expecting handouts from parents and society. And this means making sacrifices at times. Going without at times.

We have way over-indulged and spoiled this current generation but the fault lies with the previous generations for allowing things to get so out of hand with regards to behaviour.

I know I sound like a broken record but I've been watching things unfold for a long time now and we're clearly on a decline. Too many kids are born into unstable situations, surrounded by dumb and dysfunctional attitudes and themes as guides. Very few actually want to deal with these problems. Which would mean openly questioning and challenging the status quo.

Those that do are often marginalized and demonized.

So the kinds of morals that are needed is something many don't want a return to. The checks and balances they kept a lot of bad behaviour in balance in the past is where we'll go again in the future.

 

[calimehtar]

Generally I think Miller was a good mayor, but I have my own reasons for being glad for a swing back to the right:
- The city needed new revenue streams, but I think they could have been handled better. I would prefer new taxes to seem to be relevant to their purpose, for example tolls on the Gardiner and DVP would reduce congestion and could directly fund public transportation. The tax and its result are both logical and connected. The fee for registering pets seems to be a blatant cash grab and only adds to red tape. Is this city trying to discourage people from having pets? What is the cost to the city of my cat?
- I (and others) was consistently infuriated that the city would claim to be short on money on the one hand, and then increase police salaries and engineer the bidding for streetcars so that there would be only one bidder on the other.
- The plastic bag tax and the graffiti bylaw are examples of trends that seem persistent in Toronto: new bylaws that aren't properly enforced. Regardless of whether you agree with the spirit of these bylaws, it seems clear to me that they have had nearly zero impact since more businesses ignore than abide by them. We need less red tape, not more, and we particularly don't need more red tape that is so expensive to enforce that the city won't bother. The food cart fiasco comes to mind.

 

[calimehtar]

In response to the archanfel and the left vs right debate:

It's a huge exaggeration to suggest that our society is dysfunctional. The trend over the last millennium has been towards lower murder and crime rates in western society, which put contemporary Canadian society in nearly the best place it's ever been (some type of crime were lower in the 50s and 60s than today, but that's a relatively minor blip).

Canada is positioned between two models - the American model with an emphasis on law and order, and a relatively small role for social services, and the European model with an emphasis on social services. The European one seems to be much better at preventing crime. Crime rates in Europe are vastly lower than in the United States.

That said, there are nuances - European economies are over-taxed and under-performing. Although the standard of living is very high, it's widely acknowledged that European governments will have to cut back.

And the crime problem in the US may or may not be connected to social services - it's probably a bigger problem that because of excessive drug laws, 3 strikes laws, and similar issues the US criminalizes activities that are relatively harmless, and makes criminals out of otherwise decent people. The consequence of this is not only broken families and an underclass with criminal records. US States have budget problems of their own from the cost of keeping a high percentage of the population behind bars.

I hope Canada has better judgment than to follow the US into this "law and order" trap.

 

[tkip]

I know this is off topic regarding the Miller years but I want to respond to the above post. It's a myth that things are fine and everyone is happy and content.

But first the comment about the crime rates in the US. Bear in mind that the prison system in the US has more or less been privatized and you need recurring and repeated business. In those european countries where they attempt to reform criminals and reduce crime, I don't think their system is set up with profit regarding their prision system. But in the US, this is clearly not the case. It's about keeping the prisions full to make money.

Thus if the US were truly interested in reducing crime they are more than capable. But with the current system in place where you constantly need your prisons full to keep business hopping, this will never happen. The culture is also of a more violent nature and the entire system is structured around keeping this going. Too many businesses are dependent on crime in the US and the public in my opinion is conditioned to expect crime.

And while talking about the excessive drug laws in the US? As a society we have to seriously start talking about why so many of us want to be high all the time.

At work and out in public and especially among the youth, there is absolute abuse of drugs which is far more than mere recreational use. When I see so many of my much younger co-workers showing up at work stoned, getting stoned at work and bragging about being stoned all the time and the numerous drug deals occuring everywhere, something is wrong.

Most of my friends have the occasional drink and that's about it. Rarely any drugs.

They don't need drugs to "enhance" their mood or make whatever leisure activity more interesting or fun. My theory is that a lot of people are secretly stressed and unhappy with their lives and drug use takes the edge off this. Plus the taboo from the past on drug use has clearly been wiped out. Again, there is a huge disconnect out there with what's happening and this giant denial machine in place that tells everyone that everthing is just fine.

Pure BS.

As for dysfunctional behaviour being overstated in north american society?

Sadly I wish this were true but there are too many social problems stemming from bad behaviour that is directly the result of the weakening of previous morals and standards we set for codes of conduct. This is going to piss a lot of people on the board off but we've become far too liberal as a society and have allowed too many types of behaviours that are clearly not healthy, leading to other types of social problems that we just accept as the norm now.

I can make a long list of examples of this and I know several people would shoot them down and explain them away as the postings of a grumpy old man.

But when I see endless girls in their very young teens walking about in hooker outfits for example and seeing hordes of so many young people out late at night roaming the streets with obviously no curfews, parents nowhere in sight and then there's the media/entertainment machine dedicated to telling youth and people in general to do whatever makes them feel good and indulge their every want. Hence why we have a very narcissictic society now.

People need boundaries and society needs checks and balances because once you remove them, it's a slippery slope all the way down.

 

[GraphicMatt]

You just got old, dude. It'll happen to all of us.

 

[tkip]

You just got old, dude. It'll happen to all of us.

LOL!! True. People tell me this all the time and yeah, at some polnt I realized I wasn't young anymore. Life experiences though, either open your eyes or you just look the other way. But enough of my preaching for a while.

 

[W. K. Lis]

None of David Miller's proposals would have happened without the help of at least 22 Councilors on city council. That is 23 out of 45 on city council. Rob Ford was on the losing side in most cases. To get along in city council, one must "play well with others". Rob Ford is know not to do so.

 

[js97]

None of David Miller's proposals would have happened without the help of at least 22 Councilors on city council. That is 23 out of 45 on city council. Rob Ford was on the losing side in most cases. To get along in city council, one must "play well with others". Rob Ford is know not to do so.

I guess we will say the same thing about:

Paula Fletcher,
Kristyn tam-wong
Mike Layton
Gord Perks

in four years...

 

[nfitz]

I guess we will say the same thing about:

Paula Fletcher,
Kristyn tam-wong
Mike Layton
Gord Perks

in four years...

Why would we think that they wouldn't suddenly have the ability to work with other left-wing members of council well. It's the inability of Ford to work with the right-wing members of council well that is striking.

 

[js97]

Why would we think that they wouldn't suddenly have the ability to work with other left-wing members of council well. It's the inability of Ford to work with the right-wing members of council well that is striking.

Councillors are like sheep.. most of them are spineless... it was easy when you do it under the direction of a really left Mayor...


Only the hard ideological ones that depend on union support to be elected won't work with Ford (because they'll be out of a job) that's why I pointed them out.

throw Mary Fragenakis up there too....