maestro
Senior Member
They are essentially knocking it down. Only the facade will remain and even that may be subject to a rebuilding
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- Thread starter androiduk
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They are essentially knocking it down. Only the facade will remain and even that may be subject to a rebuilding
junctionist
Senior Member
I think it's misguided to say that a building that's pre-Victorian in style, even the most humble one is insignificant in Toronto. There's so little left in Toronto from before the Victorian styles became dominant. Buildings like these add more depth to our heritage stock. The more years of history that can be found in a city's heritage stock, the more interesting a city may seem.
The buildings are so deteriorated that only the facades can be saved. But they'll probably as the facades will conceal the new structures within.
The buildings are so deteriorated that only the facades can be saved. But they'll probably as the facades will conceal the new structures within.
adma
Superstar
Though don't discount the possibillity that the plate glass part is itself a later Victorian shopfront alteration...
adma
Superstar
If one wants a useful comparison point, think of it as "Pretzel Bell East" (cf. the similarly resurrected old block on the Shangri-La site)
condovo
Senior Member
A couple of years ago, I walked around Little Trinity on a warm winter's day. Water from melting snow was literally pouring inside these old townhouses through various poorly-sealed openings. There's probably not much of an interior left to salvage and if we wait much longer there won't be much of exterior either.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
The plate glass front would appear to be a proposed replacement for the two considerably smaller - and presumably original - windows shown in the photograph of the building as it is today.
Window panes in early Georgian buildings on this continent were generally 7 by 9 inches, I believe, and imported from Britain. But 12 by 15 inch, and 12 by 18 inch panes were in use in Toronto by the second decade of the 19th century according to the book Toronto in 1810. The second floor windows in this building appear to be about 48 inches wide, which would suggest that the original panes may have been 12 by 15 ( 4 panes across and 3 panes deep for each sash - a "12-on-12" window with 24 panes in all.
junctionist
Senior Member
Yeah, the big glass might not be out of place because it's a really late Georgian (1855), not the original early 19th century stock that its sober design suggests, unless the inventory of heritage buildings is wrong. It's still quite valuable, nonetheless.
wwwebster
Active Member
They need a name; everything should have a name.
Apparently, the original owner was Francis Beale, according to:
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs//1998/minutes/council/appa/cc980204/to1rpt.htm
He lived at (today’s) 399 until at least 1908, according to city directories. The 1859 directory lists him as “Francis Bail,†but over time that changes to “Beal†and then “Beale.†Also, a Benjamin Beale is listed at 403 as late as 1918.
“Beale’s Block.â
Apparently, the original owner was Francis Beale, according to:
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs//1998/minutes/council/appa/cc980204/to1rpt.htm
He lived at (today’s) 399 until at least 1908, according to city directories. The 1859 directory lists him as “Francis Bail,†but over time that changes to “Beal†and then “Beale.†Also, a Benjamin Beale is listed at 403 as late as 1918.
“Beale’s Block.â
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
From Toronto in 1810 by Eric Hounsom ( 1970 ):
"The panes of glass used in England and the eastern U.S.A. were becoming larger in 1810 and were 12" x 15" and 12" x 18" in size. New buildings in Toronto, also, were changing from twelve lights of glass in each sash to six. As larger glass panes became available, the owner would replace worn-out sash with new sash with larger and fewer panes. In new buildings, also, the windows were becoming larger than formerly. Later in the nineteenth century the six light sash became two lights. By the end of the century each upper and lower sash had one pane of glass with no muntins at all, and the shutters were usually omitted."
Page 211 of No Mean City shows an image of Oak Hall, King Street, opposite St. James' Cathedral ( demolished ) a famous clothing store in its day but chiefly remarkable for the lightness of its structure and the breadth of glass on all four floors. As Eric Arthur says, "This remarkable building was constructed in 1893 in cast iron and glass, the glass being the largest sheets to enter Canada at that date. ... In the evolution of the office building in North America, it might well be considered a landmark. It demonstrates a daringly light structure in cast iron, in which respect it is the forerunner of the steel framework of the modern skyscraper. The all-glass facade is a commonplace today, but, in 1893, it would have caused a sensation."
Compare it, if you will, to the Temple Building at Bay and Richmond, a design that went to great pains to disguise the fact that structural metal was at work behind massive masonry. But that seems to be the story of so much Victorian architectural design - ignoring the expressive possibilities the Crystal Palace presented, and delaying Modernism by 50 or 60 years.
"The panes of glass used in England and the eastern U.S.A. were becoming larger in 1810 and were 12" x 15" and 12" x 18" in size. New buildings in Toronto, also, were changing from twelve lights of glass in each sash to six. As larger glass panes became available, the owner would replace worn-out sash with new sash with larger and fewer panes. In new buildings, also, the windows were becoming larger than formerly. Later in the nineteenth century the six light sash became two lights. By the end of the century each upper and lower sash had one pane of glass with no muntins at all, and the shutters were usually omitted."
Page 211 of No Mean City shows an image of Oak Hall, King Street, opposite St. James' Cathedral ( demolished ) a famous clothing store in its day but chiefly remarkable for the lightness of its structure and the breadth of glass on all four floors. As Eric Arthur says, "This remarkable building was constructed in 1893 in cast iron and glass, the glass being the largest sheets to enter Canada at that date. ... In the evolution of the office building in North America, it might well be considered a landmark. It demonstrates a daringly light structure in cast iron, in which respect it is the forerunner of the steel framework of the modern skyscraper. The all-glass facade is a commonplace today, but, in 1893, it would have caused a sensation."
Compare it, if you will, to the Temple Building at Bay and Richmond, a design that went to great pains to disguise the fact that structural metal was at work behind massive masonry. But that seems to be the story of so much Victorian architectural design - ignoring the expressive possibilities the Crystal Palace presented, and delaying Modernism by 50 or 60 years.
current
Active Member
Image from a The Bulletin article:
The architect's proposal.
Big Plans for Little Trinity: Parish Shows Plans for Major Redevelopment
To read the article:
http://www.thebulletin.ca/cbulletin/content.jsp?ctid=1000136&cnid=1002669
The architect's proposal.
Big Plans for Little Trinity: Parish Shows Plans for Major Redevelopment
To read the article:
http://www.thebulletin.ca/cbulletin/content.jsp?ctid=1000136&cnid=1002669
College Park
Active Member
That render is really terrible: it looks like the grass hasn't been mown in a while. Also, why the physical disconnect between the church and these lands? Does the city own the park land in between the two spaces?
DSC
Superstar
There is somewhat more info on the Little Trinity website at http://www.littletrinity.on.ca/files/a-call-to-renewal-brochure.pdf Note that the new building is BEHIND the historic frontage/facade.
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greenleaf
Senior Member
francisbeale
New Member
Hello all,
My Great Great Great Grandfather was the first occupant of 399, 401, and 403, in 1853. Then in 1856 sold to Francis Beale, his new son in law. (My Great Great Grandfather). Although many details are still elusive, 403 was a store, and did have large glass windows. Plate or otherwise. He lived there until his death in 1911 and had 14 offspring.
He was Irish. After his death in 1911 the house stayed in the family for a period of time. I have a 5th cousin who is in her 80's, who's grandmother told her stories of life at 399 King Street East.
I am collecting information, connections to family, and pictures of the houses from the past to try to put together a more complete history,
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I can be contacted at francisbeale(at)gmail.com
Thank you!
My Great Great Great Grandfather was the first occupant of 399, 401, and 403, in 1853. Then in 1856 sold to Francis Beale, his new son in law. (My Great Great Grandfather). Although many details are still elusive, 403 was a store, and did have large glass windows. Plate or otherwise. He lived there until his death in 1911 and had 14 offspring.
He was Irish. After his death in 1911 the house stayed in the family for a period of time. I have a 5th cousin who is in her 80's, who's grandmother told her stories of life at 399 King Street East.
I am collecting information, connections to family, and pictures of the houses from the past to try to put together a more complete history,
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I can be contacted at francisbeale(at)gmail.com
Thank you!
DC83
Senior Member
Neat! I find it fascinating that, despite being so far apart (especiall in the 1800's), the architecture in Toronto's Corktown mirrors that of Hamilton's Corktown (John St South, between Main & the Escarpment).
I'm happy to hear these small, yet important Corktown structures will be saved. Not much can be said bout Hamilton's Corktown history.. only some original bldgs remain.
I've marked down Corktown as my next TO 'Hood Adventure!
I'm happy to hear these small, yet important Corktown structures will be saved. Not much can be said bout Hamilton's Corktown history.. only some original bldgs remain.
I've marked down Corktown as my next TO 'Hood Adventure!