[Northern Light]

Muzzo is just as important a case as is Tim McLean,

At no point did I argue differently.

Muzzo was just back from Las Vegas, his hommies slapping him on the back and sending him on his way.

I'm familiar w/the particulars of the case; I haven't suggested Muzzo should be excused or left off lightly in any way. I simply find your statements do not align w/the evidence, they're too extreme.

For the record, I'm mostly ok w/the jail sentence of Muzzo; but I would have liked to see a massive fine (given his wealth, we could be talking hundreds of millions of dollars) ; I also would have liked to see a lifetime driving ban and prohibition on car ownership.

The law would permit the driving ban; the car ownership idea might be pushing precedent a bit far; the fines would require legislative change, unfortunately.

Tim Mclean's killer was a diagnosed schizophrenic off his meds, by choice. So that fella is on the street, being patted on the back by his hommies (psychiatrists) and sending him on his way.

You know those psychiatrists live in the same communities as the rest of us; they have families, children, I'm somewhat hopeful they would have carefully weighed the safety of his release.

And he was an immigrant from China, all expenses for his care, legal rep and comfort paid for the rest of his life including a comfy new identity - do you think he would have that back in China?

His healthcare would likely have been covered, China has a form of universal healthcare with a sliding scale based on income.

As to the rest, I'm not familiar w/the particulars of Chinese law on the subject.

His family brought him here and knew he was ill.
How is it you do not comprehend that the optics are bad all round?

Who suggested that I don't? We should not craft the law around 'optics'; that's what had 'witches' burned at the stake in earlier centuries; and what permitted the persecution of gays/lesbians.

The law should be logical, factual, fair, and objective as much as these things are possible.

That there may be a material portion of the public who froth in anger should not be catered to in the way we administer justice.

 

[Rufus8]

the driver that killed the Cisulla family had 15 charges up to the crash, and he insisted on a trial pleaded not guilty. He has fought the sentence. The case before the Supreme Court was a shooter who walked into a mosque with a gun and opened fire killing 6 people. Again he insisted on a trial and then took the sentence to the Supreme Court, or rather his lawyers did as is their right seeing they are usually funded by legal aid (taxpayers). The Mosque killer thought it was unfair that he serve consecutive sentences and the justices agreed.

Specifics from my research ( you want pedantic I got pedantic right here.....)


Alexander Vinogradsky, Thornhill based Paramount Towing
Pilippo Genova, Toronto
Omer Zahawi, Vaughan
Mohamad El-Zahawi,38, Toronto, murder, weapons, trafficking (charged in 2015 with theft, break & enter, breach)
along with Ohemeng Bernard Ofori, 35 (Ghanian charged in 2015 with theft) and Said Iman Ahmed, 42 Toronto,
Henry Ampah, 31, Toronto
Salloum Jassem, 31, Brantford Conspiracy to Murder, trafficking, firearms

Heather Rowbottom, 40, Brantford Conspriacy to murder, trafficking, firearms
Seif Jassem, 34 Brantford Conspiracy to Murder, Trafficking, firearms
Erin Prentice,49 Brantford, trafficking
Dwayne Counsell, 39 trafficking, firearms,
Matthew Driver, 37 trafficking
William Boyes, 40 trafficking
Thomas Sliwinski, 39, Oakville, Murder (Richmond Hill, 2018, also attack on law firm)
Abderezak Yousuf, Toronto extortion, robbery, attempted murder, weapons
Zakariye Yousuf, Toronto
Marena Leachman, 21 Ramara township, Murder (Richmond Hill, 2018)
raids at 35 Pinehill Drive, Brantford on 27 Mar & 1 May, (owned by Asia Kazem, drug dealer, co-owner 218 Jerseyville Rd. 2018)
Jassem Hamdi Jassem, stepson of Kazem,
wife of Jassem
Roger Van Every, Brantford (accessory, both parents killed in their Park Road South Brantford home by masked gunmen in July 2019 - Kareem Zedan, 22, Pickering arrested in Thunder Bay)

------------------------------- charges stayed Jun 2022 at request of Crown Attorney following challenge of wire tap evidence----------------------



Carr Law, City of Vaughan targeted.
Richmond Hill, Hamilton, Vaughan, Markham, Oakville, Toronto, Aurora, East Gwillimbury, Brantford.
16 handguns, 13 shotguns, 9 rifles, machine gun, air pistol (converted), sawed-off shotgun, 2 stun guns, knuckle duster
5k fentanyl, 1.5 kg cocaine, 1.25 k crystal meth, 1.5kg cannabis, more than $500k cash




Jeremiah Ranger (Apr 2005 - 26 Apr 2020) 1884 Sheppard Ave West Toronto used imitation weapon to try to hold up weed dealer, who had a real weapon

Tyler Ricardo Young, 22 of Cambridge Second Degree Murder (withdrawn)
Seymour Myles Young, 23 of Toronto Second Degree Murder (sentenced to 5 years)
Hannah Yvonne Gaudet,20 of Toronto Second Degree Murder (girlfriend of above)(withdrawn)

Myles pleaded to manslaughter, others had charges withdrawn. convicted of murder sentenced to



85 Queens Wharf Drive - 31 Jan 2020 38th floor airbnb murders, no charges shooters are dead.
Jalen Colley, 21 of Brampton shot in throat
Joshua Gibson-Skeir, 20 of Brampton shot in abdomen
Tyronne Noseworthy, 19 of Toronto shot in head (twin brother of Tyreek Noseworthy on parole for gang and gun offenses)

Charges from 30 Oct 2019 "Cunningham"
five counts Attempted Murder
five counts Discharge firearm being reckless as to the Life or Safety of Anothe Person
Handle Firearm Carelessly
Possess Loaded Regulated firearm
Possess Restricted or Prohibited Firearm without Holding a Licence and Registration Certificate
Carry Concealed Weapon
Possess Weapon Dangerous
Occupy motor vehicle with Firearm



2018 Theft - Woman posted computer for sale, 2 males showed up took her computer and ran away, with a gun falling from one of the males.
Next day someone tried to sell the computer, police moved in

17 year old boy - Possess Property Obtained by Crime for trafficking under 5K
three counts of weapons dangerous for Public Peace
three counts Carry conceal weapon
Possess prohibited weapon
Unlawfully possesss chedule III Substance
Possession of Property Obtained by crime over 5K


17 year old boy - Possession of Property obtained by crime over 5k

Other men arrested -

Matchushan Kamalakumaran, 18 of Toronto
Possession of Property Obtained by Crime over 5k

Tajean Alexander-Smith, 18 of Toronto
Possession of Property obtained by Crime over 5k

Mohsen Yahya, 18 of Toronto
Possession of Property Obtained by Crime over 5k

Laxsen Laxmikanthan, 18 (370 mccowan rd)
Possession of Property Obtained by Crime over 5k
Possession for the Purpose of Trafficking Marihuana
Adult Possession of Marihuana in a Public Place
Possession of Proceeds of Crime

 

[Rufus8]

Of course it's so much better to be hyperbolic about it, and spread misinformation to whip up emotions.

The opposite is true, people are giving you the facts here.

because there are no emotions involved in being a victim of crime, right? mansplain life in the city to me again, I can't hear you.

 

[picard102]

because there are no emotions involved in being a victim of crime, right? mansplain life in the city to me again, I can't hear you.

Our justice system isn't based on revenge for the victims, you'd do well to remember that when pontificating about it.
The law should absolutely be bereft of emotion and applied fairly and logicly. Anyone suggesting otherwise is frankly more concerned about satiating their bloodlust than actual justice.

 

[Rufus8]

Our justice system isn't based on revenge for the victims, you'd do well to remember that when pontificating about it.
The law should absolutely be bereft of emotion and applied fairly and logicly. Anyone suggesting otherwise is frankly more concerned about satiating their bloodlust than actual justice.

The justice system should reflect and respect the community - there is no other reason for the system to exist unless it not only serves the community but recognizes and responds to the realities of life. It's not about revenge it is about preserving the slightest inkling that we are a law abiding society, if the courts let us down why bother obeying the law?

 

[Northern Light]

The justice system should reflect and respect the community - there is no other reason for the system to exist unless it not only serves the community but recognizes and responds to the realities of life. It's not about revenge it is about preserving the slightest inkling that we are a law abiding society, if the courts let us down why bother obeying the law?

So..."If I don't get my way, screw the entire system?"

Ok there, see how that argument flies.

 

[lenaitch]

the driver that killed the Cisulla family had 15 charges up to the crash, and he insisted on a trial pleaded not guilty. He has fought the sentence. The case before the Supreme Court was a shooter who walked into a mosque with a gun and opened fire killing 6 people. Again he insisted on a trial and then took the sentence to the Supreme Court, or rather his lawyers did as is their right seeing they are usually funded by legal aid (taxpayers). The Mosque killer thought it was unfair that he serve consecutive sentences and the justices agreed.

Specifics from my research ( you want pedantic I got pedantic right here.....)


Alexander Vinogradsky, Thornhill based Paramount Towing
Pilippo Genova, Toronto
Omer Zahawi, Vaughan
Mohamad El-Zahawi,38, Toronto, murder, weapons, trafficking (charged in 2015 with theft, break & enter, breach)
along with Ohemeng Bernard Ofori, 35 (Ghanian charged in 2015 with theft) and Said Iman Ahmed, 42 Toronto,
Henry Ampah, 31, Toronto
Salloum Jassem, 31, Brantford Conspiracy to Murder, trafficking, firearms

Heather Rowbottom, 40, Brantford Conspriacy to murder, trafficking, firearms
Seif Jassem, 34 Brantford Conspiracy to Murder, Trafficking, firearms
Erin Prentice,49 Brantford, trafficking
Dwayne Counsell, 39 trafficking, firearms,
Matthew Driver, 37 trafficking
William Boyes, 40 trafficking
Thomas Sliwinski, 39, Oakville, Murder (Richmond Hill, 2018, also attack on law firm)
Abderezak Yousuf, Toronto extortion, robbery, attempted murder, weapons
Zakariye Yousuf, Toronto
Marena Leachman, 21 Ramara township, Murder (Richmond Hill, 2018)
raids at 35 Pinehill Drive, Brantford on 27 Mar & 1 May, (owned by Asia Kazem, drug dealer, co-owner 218 Jerseyville Rd. 2018)
Jassem Hamdi Jassem, stepson of Kazem,
wife of Jassem
Roger Van Every, Brantford (accessory, both parents killed in their Park Road South Brantford home by masked gunmen in July 2019 - Kareem Zedan, 22, Pickering arrested in Thunder Bay)

------------------------------- charges stayed Jun 2022 at request of Crown Attorney following challenge of wire tap evidence----------------------



Carr Law, City of Vaughan targeted.
Richmond Hill, Hamilton, Vaughan, Markham, Oakville, Toronto, Aurora, East Gwillimbury, Brantford.
16 handguns, 13 shotguns, 9 rifles, machine gun, air pistol (converted), sawed-off shotgun, 2 stun guns, knuckle duster
5k fentanyl, 1.5 kg cocaine, 1.25 k crystal meth, 1.5kg cannabis, more than $500k cash




Jeremiah Ranger (Apr 2005 - 26 Apr 2020) 1884 Sheppard Ave West Toronto used imitation weapon to try to hold up weed dealer, who had a real weapon

Tyler Ricardo Young, 22 of Cambridge Second Degree Murder (withdrawn)
Seymour Myles Young, 23 of Toronto Second Degree Murder (sentenced to 5 years)
Hannah Yvonne Gaudet,20 of Toronto Second Degree Murder (girlfriend of above)(withdrawn)

Myles pleaded to manslaughter, others had charges withdrawn. convicted of murder sentenced to



85 Queens Wharf Drive - 31 Jan 2020 38th floor airbnb murders, no charges shooters are dead.
Jalen Colley, 21 of Brampton shot in throat
Joshua Gibson-Skeir, 20 of Brampton shot in abdomen
Tyronne Noseworthy, 19 of Toronto shot in head (twin brother of Tyreek Noseworthy on parole for gang and gun offenses)

Charges from 30 Oct 2019 "Cunningham"
five counts Attempted Murder
five counts Discharge firearm being reckless as to the Life or Safety of Anothe Person
Handle Firearm Carelessly
Possess Loaded Regulated firearm
Possess Restricted or Prohibited Firearm without Holding a Licence and Registration Certificate
Carry Concealed Weapon
Possess Weapon Dangerous
Occupy motor vehicle with Firearm



2018 Theft - Woman posted computer for sale, 2 males showed up took her computer and ran away, with a gun falling from one of the males.
Next day someone tried to sell the computer, police moved in

17 year old boy - Possess Property Obtained by Crime for trafficking under 5K
three counts of weapons dangerous for Public Peace
three counts Carry conceal weapon
Possess prohibited weapon
Unlawfully possesss chedule III Substance
Possession of Property Obtained by crime over 5K


17 year old boy - Possession of Property obtained by crime over 5k

Other men arrested -

Matchushan Kamalakumaran, 18 of Toronto
Possession of Property Obtained by Crime over 5k

Tajean Alexander-Smith, 18 of Toronto
Possession of Property obtained by Crime over 5k

Mohsen Yahya, 18 of Toronto
Possession of Property Obtained by Crime over 5k

Laxsen Laxmikanthan, 18 (370 mccowan rd)
Possession of Property Obtained by Crime over 5k
Possession for the Purpose of Trafficking Marihuana
Adult Possession of Marihuana in a Public Place
Possession of Proceeds of Crime

The nerve of some people; exercising their right to a trial. I have no clue as to the point of the rest of the post.

The justice system should reflect and respect the community - there is no other reason for the system to exist unless it not only serves the community but recognizes and responds to the realities of life. It's not about revenge it is about preserving the slightest inkling that we are a law abiding society, if the courts let us down why bother obeying the law?

It seems some of the community here don't agree with much of your position.

 

[lenaitch]

For the record, I'm mostly ok w/the jail sentence of Muzzo; but I would have liked to see a massive fine (given his wealth, we could be talking hundreds of millions of dollars) ; I also would have liked to see a lifetime driving ban and prohibition on car ownership.

The law would permit the driving ban; the car ownership idea might be pushing precedent a bit far; the fines would require legislative change, unfortunately.

I am not aware of of any Canadian jurisdiction that has tried this, but it would be an interesting approach. Title ownership =/= authority to drive. It's really property law and the Charter is pretty much silent on that. I'm not sure it is even within the authority of either level of government. It would interesting to see how such a law could be crafted, either criminally or administratively (HTA). No doubt it would be well appealed.

 

[picard102]

The justice system should reflect and respect the community

How does it not? By not being vengeful enough? Your version of justice is little more than mob rule.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I'm sorry what?

HE CHOSE TO DRINK. HE CHOSE. CHOSE. CHOSE. CHOSE. That is NOT an excuse. I don't care what high alcohol does to your mental state. I don't care if you get into a psychotic state. I don't care if you can't think properly. YOU CHOSE TO DRINK WHILE KNOWING THE EFFECTS OF HIGH BLOOD ALCOHOL.

Li chose not to take his meds. Isn’t that intent?

 

[Cryptopreneur]

Li chose not to take his meds. Isn’t that intent?

I was referring to Muzzo and I've never read into the Li case/event, but purely based on the question you posed, I do agree, it is intent. The question then becomes, could he make the rational decision to not take his meds or was someone required to provide him with his meds. Either way, he should NOT be free (if he is).

 

[Admiral Beez]

I was referring to Muzzo and I've never read into the Li case/event, but purely based on the question you posed, I do agree, it is intent. The question then becomes, could he make the rational decision to not take his meds or was someone required to provide him with his meds. Either way, he should NOT be free (if he is).

I’m okay with Li being free, but under lifetime supervision. But Muzzo and his ilk should be in prison for at least twenty years.

 

[Cryptopreneur]

I’m okay with Li being free, but under lifetime supervision. But Muzzo and his ilk should be in prison for at least twenty years.

Meh, lifetime supervision or being in a cell is really the same thing... at least an asylum, lol.

But yeah, we shouldn't be granting parole to intentional murders, at least not after 5 years or whatever he served. If I was in charge, I would ONLY even consider THINKING about parole is when the person in custody has wasted enough of their lives and that getting out wouldn't make a difference for them. That's the type of Law that we need to implement here in Canada to even make a dent in the number of cases like these.

 

[picard102]

If I was in charge, I would ONLY even consider THINKING about parole is when the person in custody has wasted enough of their lives and that getting out wouldn't make a difference for them.

Why even let them out ever if you're just going to make them wards of the state essentially? In fact, why not just have all sentences be life?

 

[Cryptopreneur]

Why even let them out ever if you're just going to make them wards of the state essentially? In fact, why not just have all sentences be life?

What a straw man. This is why I hate discussing stuff like this. I think I’m done.