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Armour

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So did your brother also indicate to the dispatcher that the other driver appeared to be drunk?
And where did this incident occur?
I just clarified with my brother; here is what happened: He and the driver that hit him were both driving SUVs and both of them were totaled, and came to rest in the middle of the intersection, with parts scattered all over the road. In addition to my brother's call to the police, the two tow truck drivers that came both agreed that the man who caused the accident smelled of alcohol and was clearly out of it. Both drivers also called the police and told them about his drunkenness. The police asked if anyone was seriously injured, to which my brother and the tow truck drivers -- during their various calls -- replied: no. The police said they couldn't spare any officers. Apart from the severe negligence on the part of the police for not showing up to assess the situation and arrest the clearly intoxicated driver, I wonder what happened with the scatted debris on the road...who cleaned that up?

My brother has a friend who is a cop and he was floored that no officer(s) bothered to show up. He said it is standard protocol for the police to show up at the scene of any car accident; especially when impaired driving is evident.

The location was Kennedy Rd & Antrim Cr (across the road from Kennedy Commons).
 

doady

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Just yet another example why alcohol should be banned. I think it's sad. It isn't just Marco Muzzo, as a society we are all responsible for these deaths in a way by saying permitting the sale and consumption of alcohol, and putting all blame on the people who drink and ignoring the effects of alcohol (e.g. aggression, impaired judgment, etc.). Drug addicts are as much victims as anyone. Yes, alcohol is a drug. I think it's time to ban it.
 

Armour

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While I find the taste of alcohol revolting and the effects of it dangerous and annoying, it will never be prohibited again. There's definitely something missing in people's lives when they can't enjoy themselves in a perpetual sober state.
 

Johnny Au

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Only if self-driving cars were ubiquitous or if Muzzo did not drink before he drove, this would not have had happened.
 

Admiral Beez

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Only if self-driving cars were ubiquitous or if Muzzo did not drink before he drove, this would not have had happened.
I'd steer clear of absolutes like that. Who's to say he wouldn't have run the stop side if driving sober? There are plenty of reckless and selfish drivers out there.

As for self driving cars, while not a factor in this case, do they even work in snow storms?
 

EagleEye

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A little over 5 years ago my brother's vehicle was struck by a drunk driver who ran a red light at an intersection. My brother said his SUV did a 360 and it was totaled. Afterwards, he confronted the driver (who reeked of alcohol) and called the police, and get this...they said they couldn't send any officers -- or wouldn't send any -- to the scene (I guess they couldn't be bothered, considering the snow storm that was taking place; or out of sheer laziness). I believe they asked my brother if he or anyone else was injured (he wasn't, nor was anyone else therefore they basically just pretended that it didn't happen). So, the moral of the story is that the police don't care if one is driving drunk/running red lights and hitting other vehicles; as long as no one is hurt, it's just a shrug of the shoulders.

I had a similar accident, but I don't know if the guy was drunk. Ran the red light, hit me, totalled my car and took off. Cops showed up after an hour but the vehicle and 3 occupants returned by then so he wasn't even charged with fleeing the scene. The cop was totally useless. Next time I think I'd say I have injuries instead of saying I just had soreness.
 

NorthYorkEd

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Yes, alcohol is a drug. I think it's time to ban it.

Yes, and let's ban coffee while we're at it. It also contains a drug that can affect behaviour. And also prescriptions and certain medications, because some people get out of control with those, too. Cars. Hell, they are used to hurt and injure people every single day due to people being stupid and reckless, so they should definitely be on the ban list.

Where do we draw the line?

Banning is not going to solve anything. It's been tried many times, and failed miserably each time, often giving rise to new problems (organized crime, anyone?).

The simple fact is, addiction and destructive behaviour are lifestyle choices. I know everyone likes to avoid responsibility for their choices and actions by claiming they have a "disease", but cancer is a disease. Drinking yourself into a stupor is a choice. Anyone can wake up and decide to stop being a drunk or an addict (yes, it is immensely difficult, but it is possible), but you can't decide not to have cancer or cerebral palsy.

While I find the taste of alcohol revolting and the effects of it dangerous and annoying, it will never be prohibited again. There's definitely something missing in people's lives when they can't enjoy themselves in a perpetual sober state.

Yes. Fun. Human beings have been enjoying fermented spirits since we crawled out of the ooze. For some, it gives the same relaxation and pleasure that one might get from something like praying, meditation, or whatever it is that floats your boat. Maybe it's looking down from a high horse and judging others that gives you that tingle of self-satisfaction.

Many folks enjoy their booze responsibly. The beauty of it is that we are free to choose whether or not to imbibe. But you sound like one of those "I don't like it, so no one else should" type of people.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Indeed - why ban alcohol? Why should someone who doesn't even drive pay for the sins of someone who decided to drink and drive?

What one should be banning are individuals who cannot be a responsible driver - drunk or not drunk - from ever operating a vehicle.

AoD
 

rbt

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Indeed - why ban alcohol?

Money, mostly health-care money.

I'm not sure about Ontario, but 70% of hospital visits in the UK on weekends are alcohol related.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2015...-of-weekend-emergency-room-visits-in-uk-city/

Also, an improved mechanism for identifying the 10% of the population which consumes over 10 drinks (standard measure) per day (on average) is probably worth while for addiction treatment. 10 drinks would be about 1.5L of wine. Just figuring out what they're self medicating for an prescribing something appropriate from the pharmacy would be an improvement.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ink-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/

There's a fair amount of evidence that even 4 drinks per day (sustained) has significant impacts in long-term brain function. Reduced neurogenesis (creation of neurons), which can happen for a variety of reasons, has a strong correlation with alzheimers and dementia. Care for these patients can be very expensive due to the huge amount of monitoring being required. In the words of the last Family Guy episode "What's gotten into me? I'm angry! For God's sake, I can't even be left alone in my own house for an afternoon."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22906480

I don't want a ban (love my Georgian wines) but some might argue a ban strictly on a cost basis. I wouldn't be surprised if in 50 years we figured out a technical way to cap consumption on an individual basis.

I would like to see Ontario study whether the current alcohol taxes are actually covering the costs; and for municipalities which fund ambulance services to add an alcohol tax of their own.
 
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NorthYorkEd

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Reduced neurogenesis (creation of neurons), which can happen for a variety of reasons, has a strong correlation with alzheimers and dementia. Care for these patients can be very expensive due to the huge amount of monitoring being required.

Our over-consumption of refined sugars and processed foods has much more to do with dementia (and other negative health outcomes) than booze. In fact, many researchers are now referring to Alzheimers and other forms of dementia as "Type III diabetes". Sure,a lot of people might end up needing care due to overindulging, but how many are being hospitalized for other lifestyle-induced conditions, such as bad hips and knees due to obesity, type II diabetes, etc?

You can trace almost every ill of modern times, from acid reflux to obesity to cancer, directly to our piss-poor (and government-sanctioned) dietary intake.

I do agree that people who willingly compromise themselves should foot the bill. 100%.
 

Armour

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Yes, and let's ban coffee while we're at it. It also contains a drug that can affect behaviour. And also prescriptions and certain medications, because some people get out of control with those, too. Cars. Hell, they are used to hurt and injure people every single day due to people being stupid and reckless, so they should definitely be on the ban list.

Where do we draw the line?

Banning is not going to solve anything. It's been tried many times, and failed miserably each time, often giving rise to new problems (organized crime, anyone?).

The simple fact is, addiction and destructive behaviour are lifestyle choices. I know everyone likes to avoid responsibility for their choices and actions by claiming they have a "disease", but cancer is a disease. Drinking yourself into a stupor is a choice. Anyone can wake up and decide to stop being a drunk or an addict (yes, it is immensely difficult, but it is possible), but you can't decide not to have cancer or cerebral palsy.



Yes. Fun. Human beings have been enjoying fermented spirits since we crawled out of the ooze. For some, it gives the same relaxation and pleasure that one might get from something like praying, meditation, or whatever it is that floats your boat. Maybe it's looking down from a high horse and judging others that gives you that tingle of self-satisfaction.

Many folks enjoy their booze responsibly. The beauty of it is that we are free to choose whether or not to imbibe. But you sound like one of those "I don't like it, so no one else should" type of people.
People can't have fun without alcohol? I'm not saying people shouldn't drink, nor am I judging -- but observing -- people. It is my opinion that many people drink to fulfill a void in their lives; as if to say that they would be depressed and bored not to partake in alcohol consumption; thus it is deemed necessary for their mental well being. Kind of like people that associate stress in their lives as a consequence of not getting laid. Sex, then, becomes their antidote. But that only offers transient pleasure and doesn't address what are probably deeper psychological issues. And, yes, you are correct; people can drink responsibly. I don't have an issue with that.
 
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NorthYorkEd

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People can't have fun without alcohol? It is my opinion that many people drink to fulfill a void in their lives; as if to say that they would be depressed and bored not to partake in alcohol consumption; thus it is deemed necessary for their mental well being.

Sure, people can have fun without it. I was being glib. But you can say the same thing about filling voids with religion, hobbies, having kids, having an affair, etc. I think the feeling of being lost or disconnected is just part of the human condition, perhaps a result of focusing our lives on ridiculous (and ultimately, empty) pursuits like jobs, money, and power.

Would you include those that contract STDs through casual sex in that bracket?

Yep. You play, you pay.
 

doady

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It's amazing the lengths that people will go defend alcohol, even in a thread about a case in which three children were killed by a drunk driver. Comparing alcohol to coffee??? Wow...

Would these 3 children still have been killed if Marco Muzzo has drunk coffee instead of alcohol? It sounds like the sort of question that someone who alcoholic and currently drunk out of their mind would actually seriously think about.

But let the eternal coffee vs. alcohol debate rage on. It's sad what alcohol does to people, that's all I have to say.
 

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