[LNahid2000]

Really? This is directly from the TTC's website....



So...you still want to argue that doesn't cover the "whole downtown core surface transit"?

It isn't about me...it's about an essential service used by a huge amount of people. It's a matter of principal.

Why don't you add up the ridership numbers for all those routes listed for the six hours they are affected by the marathon, and then explain to me how you justify shutting down essential services for a non emergency that could just as easily be held on a route that doesn't have this affect.

Significant delays does not equal "shuts down the whole downtown core surface transit".

Also, it's Sunday morning, so a huge amount of people aren't even using the service.

This is clearly all about you getting to your antiquing on time.

 

[JWBF]

Actually, I think I recall there being more than two marathons that shut down the whole downtown core surface transit.

Really? This is directly from the TTC's website....

Toronto Transit Commission service on many routes will be on diversion this Sunday, October 19, during the annual Scotiabank Waterfront Marathon. The marathon will result in significant transit and traffic delays, and the closure of many roads.

TTC routes affected include:

• 5 Avenue Road
• 6 Bay
• 22A Coxwell
• 64 Main
• 65 Parliament
• 75 Sherbourne
• 83 Jones
• 92 Woodbine South
• 94 Wellesley
• 172 Cherry Street
• 300 Bloor-Danforth
• 310 Bathurst
• 320 Yonge
• 501 Queen
• 504 King
• 505 Dundas
• 506 Carlton
• 509 Harbourfront
• 510 Spadina
• 511 Bathurst

So...you still want to argue that doesn't cover the "whole downtown core surface transit"?

It isn't about me...it's about an essential service used by a huge amount of people. It's a matter of principal.

Why don't you add up the ridership numbers for all those routes listed for the six hours they are affected by the marathon, and then explain to me how you justify shutting down essential services for a non emergency that could just as easily be held on a route that doesn't have this affect.

Interesting, I don't see the words such as shut down except from you. Yet again your facts are dubious, and this time you contradict yourself.

 

[animatronic]

Agreed, Tory now has to crystalize his vague statements. Will he give direction to improve the city or show us that Toronto will just be one big DIY project.

Why are you dragging Tory's name into the argument? If you want to talk politics go somewhere else - this is a road racing forum.

 

[JWBF]

Why are you dragging Tory's name into the argument? If you want to talk politics go somewhere else - this is a road racing forum.

Please forgive me.

 

[Videodrome]

So, with no crack scandals and such to talk about, this is what happens?

 

[pw20]

Interesting, I don't see the words such as shut down except from you. Yet again your facts are dubious, and this time you contradict yourself.

Again -let's all look at the John Tory quote (wheras the Globe and Mail headline mention headlines marathons JT says nothing specifically about the Toronto Scotiabank Marathon or any other marathon) “When three worthy groups all want to have their run down Yonge Street in the same month, that’s very nice, but we may have to say to one of them, … ‘Sorry, somebody may have to move to another month, or somebody’s going to have to make the move to another place in the public interest,’â€

FYI - JT was probably not talking about the Scotiabank Marathon which actually doesnt run Yonge Street. The goodlife marathon does indeed run down Yonge Street.

Really... the two of you are arguing over rubbish and as was pointed out (quite intelligently above) this black versus white nonsense ads nothing to the discourse.

 

[JWBF]

Really... the two of you are arguing over rubbish and as was pointed out (quite intelligently above) this black versus white nonsense ads nothing to the discourse.

Black vs. white? You have lost me... please explain, your statement is not making any sense to me.

 

[JGHali]

Apparently there's some "nuance" in arguing that there are "too many" marathons/running events since they "shut down" all downtown transit.

The Fifty Shades of Grey of Being Forced to Walk from Spadina to Yonge

 

[pw20]

Apparently there's some "nuance" in arguing that there are "too many" marathons/running events since they "shut down" all downtown transit.

The Fifty Shades of Grey of Being Forced to Walk from Spadina to Yonge

I'm not arguing for whatever FCG is saying. Because this is the John Tory forum - I'm arguing in support of his statement. If you and Fresh Cut Grass want to over marathon placements - may I suggest you start a forum entitled: Does Toronto Need Two Marathons that may or may not disrupt surface transit. If you want to talk about what John Tory actually said - happy to have that conversation.

I know we all came of age in the Ford era - but I refuse to believe that TO Politics is this black versus white. John Tory always bad. Marathons Good. or John Tory always right. Marathons bad.

Neither position is entirely helpful or 100% correct.

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

Well - the three main runs on Yonge have their dates advertised on their sites now

Yonge St 10K - Sunday April 19, 2015
Goodlife Toronto Marathon - Sunday May 3rd, 2015
Sporting Life 10K - Sunday May 10th, 2015

and The Waterfront Marathon is Sunday October 18, 2015

 

[JGHali]

I'm not arguing for whatever FCG is saying. Because this is the John Tory forum - I'm arguing in support of his statement. If you and Fresh Cut Grass want to over marathon placements - may I suggest you start a forum entitled: Does Toronto Need Two Marathons that may or may not disrupt surface transit. If you want to talk about what John Tory actually said - happy to have that conversation.

I know we all came of age in the Ford era - but I refuse to believe that TO Politics is this black versus white. John Tory always bad. Marathons Good. or John Tory always right. Marathons bad.

Neither position is entirely helpful or 100% correct.

I think it's somewhat... disingenuous to reframe this discussion as "black and white". Tory is not "bad" but he absolutely was pandering to drivers in his marathon comments, and as evidenced here the arguments along those lines range from petty to asinine.

It's hardly the first time Tory has done this either, see Eglinton Connects.

 

[salsa]

I think it's somewhat... disingenuous to reframe this discussion as "black and white". Tory is not "bad" but he absolutely was pandering to drivers in his marathon comments, and as evidenced here the arguments along those lines range from petty to asinine.

It's hardly the first time Tory has done this either, see Eglinton Connects.

That's exactly what I tried to point out in my recent post.

 

[pw20]

That's exactly what I tried to point out in my recent post.

First of all - Tory actually never mentioned either marathon. Read his quote. He probably didn't mention the marathon specifically because only 1 of 2 marathons actually use Yonge Street. Read his actual quote, not the Globe and Mail headline.

I look at ANY traffic policy as having to be realistic. Building subways or LRTs are BRTs isn't going to magically make all traffic disappear; a) people will still drive, b) we still have thousands of trucks who deliver things and who can't use transit. The quote Salsa picked from Tory: "I have said all along that any proposal that will add to road congestion by reducing lanes of traffic is a non-starter in my books". Do you understand how much we rely on trucks servicing the city that use our roads and that can't magically disappear by transit? We don't have enough roads as it is. Should we build more? No we should not - but I actually don't think we should be reducing lanes for transit either. Again - perhaps this is a philosophical difference and one that's an interesting topic to debate about - but I would argue that Toronto (especially inner city roads) were built for a MUCH smaller population size, we have roads like Dupont or Harbord, which were country lanes that have become major arterials - and they are one way roads! Should we be building transit because its more efficient - yes!!! Hell yes!!! But I am not naive enough to argue that taking away a transit lane would magically make traffic disappear. This is a much larger and more regional discussion - we can't become a transit focussed city without providing meaningful transit to the 905 (but that's neither here nor there).

Tory ran his entire campaign on building "smart track" which is a piece of transit infrastructure that is the same piece of transit infrastructure that Metrolinx, our provincial transit board, also supports and which our liberal government also supports. To argue that Tory panders to drivers is, in my opinion totally disingenuous.

Tory, like most politicians, has to tread a very fine line between a) what can be accomplished financially and b) what he perceives the bulk of the electorate wants. So he doesn't support Eglinton Connects because he knows that Eglinton is one of the few roads that almost the entire city uses as a crosstown route and he doesn't want to touch that with a ten foot poll. This is imperfect city building, I realize, but Toronto isn't SimCity. You can't just magically plop things down or bulldoze things you don't like. (Perhaps this is too realpolitik for this for board, but in general I've found Tory rationale enough to realize what he CAN effect change on and what he can't and quite frankly I actually find this rather reasonable in him to be honest.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Tory doesn't not support Eglinton Connects.

 

[Gavin]

Really? This is directly from the TTC's website....

[...]

So...you still want to argue that doesn't cover the "whole downtown core surface transit"?

Yes.

"Significant" does not equal "Whole".

"Delays" does not equal "Shut Down".

I'll say it again: we're a small-minded big city.

I'm not arguing for whatever FCG is saying. Because this is the John Tory forum - I'm arguing in support of his statement. If you and Fresh Cut Grass want to over marathon placements - may I suggest you start a forum entitled: Does Toronto Need Two Marathons that may or may not disrupt surface transit. If you want to talk about what John Tory actually said - happy to have that conversation.

Holy shit, conversation evolves organically. Let it. It's a discussion forum.

Well - the three main runs on Yonge have their dates advertised on their sites now

Yonge St 10K - Sunday April 19, 2015
Goodlife Toronto Marathon - Sunday May 3rd, 2015
Sporting Life 10K - Sunday May 10th, 2015

and The Waterfront Marathon is Sunday October 18, 2015

They're on the same day every year.