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Ah, back during the Jane Jacobs-worshipping Miller mayoralty, the defining talk was about *pedestrian* activism, not *marathoner* activism...
 
urbandreamer said:
Why can't they run marathons on residential side streets? Or even streets like St George, Beverly, John, Wellington, Church, Wellesley/Harbord?
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.

Gavin said:
Plus, the routes are what they are for a reason.

1. You need enough space to accommodate the runners to avoid injuries (so parks are out);
2. If you want a fast(er) course to attract more runners, then topography needs to be taken into account (so again, parks are out, and there's a reason the majority of the routes are run south);
3. If you want a scenic course to attract more runners, then a more urban location is desirable in lieu of natural beauty like, say, Big Sur (so Downsview, for example, is out); and,
4. If you want to attract more runners, then you want to maintain your IAAF rating, which again take the route, speed, and topography into account.

In any other city in the world, people line the streets by the thousands to cheer on the runners because they're proud of their city. In Toronto, we piss and moan because a streetcar, or worse, a car, is delayed. Fucking philistines.
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A few friends are running in the NYC Half-Marathon this spring and I was looking at its website this morning. Guess how it's advertised?

Your Chance to Stop Traffic in Times Square

The 2015 United Airlines NYC Half will take runners from around the city and the globe on a 13.1-mile tour of NYC. Led by a talent-packed roster of American and international elites, runners will stop traffic in Manhattan, from Central Park through Times Square to South Street Seaport!
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I can't :rolleyes: enough at some of you.
 
freshcutgrass said:
Look...I'm getting tired of pointing out your lazy, flawed excuses. The "delay" they are speaking about, is the fact that there is NO service for the duration of the facking marathon. It's not like you have to wait an extra 5 minutes...or catch a shuttle bus (like they have when they shut down the subway). There's no service...and no alternate route. period. Until the marathon is over. Do you comprende???

And I asked you to add up the ridership of all these routes on Sunday. Then tell me that number is of no significance.
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There is an alternate route... its called the Bloor-Danforth Line.

And for the record, the transit routes that cross the marathon are diverted. There is still service, despite whatever you may think.

"Toronto Transit Commission service on many routes will be on diversion this Sunday, October 19, during the annual Scotiabank Waterfront Marathon."
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"Toronto Transit Commission service on many routes will be on diversion this Sunday, May 4, during the annual GoodLife Fitness Toronto Marathon. For more information about these diversions and the routing they will take, go to ttc.ca"
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https://www.ttc.ca/News/2014/October/1710_water_running.jsp

http://www.ttc.ca/News/2014/April/0430_good_life.jsp
 
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Gavin said:
A few friends are running in the NYC Half-Marathon this spring and I was looking at its website this morning. Guess how it's advertised?



I can't :rolleyes: enough at some of you.
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Canadians don't want to stop traffic--our culture tends to be nicer than America's culture of individualism and assertiveness (for better or for worse). Nonetheless, practically speaking, an expressway is a great place for a Sunday marathon.

Residential streets are out of the question. They're too narrow (especially with permit street parking) and people shouldn't be confined to their homes for someone's event. Commercial streets are better since they're wider and can be emptied on a Sunday, but merchants want to do business on Sundays these days. Also, using a commercial street creates a barrier across town for the duration of the event. Try driving or even walking across the Santa Clause parade route when the floats and marchers are passing through an area. Expressways on the other hand are grade separated. Traffic continues to cross the event route without a barrier.
 
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Also, do you people even know the existing routes of the two Toronto marathons?

http://www.torontowaterfrontmarathon.com/en/images/stwmmap14_lg.jpg

How much of the route is already run along Lakeshore Blvd? At least 15 km. And then another ~20 km is along Queen E, out to the Beaches and back.

And,

http://www.torontomarathon.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Goodlife_TO_Marathon_R-699x1024.jpg

10 km down Yonge, ~6 km down Rosedale Valley Rd and Bayview, and then another ~15 km along Lakeshore Blvd out west and back.

How, exactly, is this nearly as disruptive as you people are arguing? Do you even know the routes? Shutting down the downtown core? Again, there aren't enough :rolleyes:
 
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Oh, and the routes only use one side of the Lakeshore. The other side is still open to traffic both ways, just reduced to half of the lanes. On a Sunday morning. I'm sure you all knew that too, right?
 
I am happy to have had so much briefing on marathons but it is only one facet of TO's traffic woes. I feel the real problem is the uncoordinated mix of disruptions. In isolation marathons are fine. In a short summer climate the road work accelerates, the festivals ramp up, and the TTC does its own repairs leaving many to stew in traffic weather by transit, car or foot. I was part of an informal car share in the oughts where three friends cost shared a car for big grocery trips, out of town visits, and D Ding each other around in poor weather. Most days we all used transit. Not every driver is a jerk. As for Sundays, it was the one day we almost always did want to drive. Somewhere on this thread I read that the permits for road use are not even computed by looking at other users for that day. I think Tory effed up by using marathons as the example as they seem to be the least of the offenders. The Indy (which I have attended and enjoyed) would have been a better example of a disruption. I agree in principle that transit routes or reasonable alternatives must be maintained at all times. Civic life requires the needs (not wishes) of all to be met. Plenty of people work on Sundays and already deal with reduced, late starting service.
 
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nohostages said:
I am happy to have had so much briefing on marathons but it is only one facet of TO's traffic woes. I feel the real problem is the uncoordinated mix of disruptions. In isolation marathons are fine. In a short summer climate the road work accelerates, the festivals ramp up, and the TTC does its own repairs leaving many to stew in traffic weather by transit, car or foot. I was part of an informal car share in the lights where three friends cost shared a car for big grocery trips, out of town visits, and D Ding each other around in poor weather. Most days we all used transit. Not every driver is a jerk. As for Sundays, it was the one day we almost always did want to drive. Somewhere on this thread I read that the permits for road use are not even computed by looking at other users for that day. I think Tory effed up by using marathons as the example as they seem to be the least of the offenders. The Indy (which I have attended and enjoyed) would have been a better example of a disruption. I agree in principle that transit routes or reasonable alternatives must be maintained at all times. Civic life requires the needs (not wishes) of all to be met. Plenty of people work on Sundays and already deal with reduced, late starting service.
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Wait, I'm confused. You are being rational and reasonable, that's not fair! :p

Good points, as soon as Tory gets back from the holidays he's going to have to step up to clarify what has been said so far, and solidify a base to work over at least the next year. Vague sound blurs will give us nothing different from the last 4 years.
 
JWBF said:
Wait, I'm confused. You are being rational and reasonable, that's not fair! :p

Good points, as soon as Tory gets back from the holidays he's going to have to step up to clarify what has been said so far, and solidify a base to work over at least the next year. Vague sound blurs will give us nothing different from the last 4 years.
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True. No controversy here. Thread deadening reason . I can't believe no one wants to debate my drive through delivery depot concept. The new build at younge and eggs is 68 stories of residential,Retail at grade and 6 stories of parking underground. How's the pizza guy going to deliver there? Double parking for double cheese? This is a traffic issue. An architectural issue a Tory issue and Toronto issue.Itnis difficult to remedy that old built city traffic issues . But letting new builds happen with little consideration to how the traffic around it works is all on us (society not UTers.)
 
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