[Towered]

Not widely noted in yesterday's 'new deal for Toronto'..........was this:

View attachment 523482

From:

Five key take-aways about the ‘new deal’ between Toronto and the province

Here’s how Monday’s deal will affect highways, subways, housing and more

www.thestar.com

That's ~ $4,700 for each housing unit approved based on just over 73,000 units above.

Worth saying that's far less than what the City will require to comprehensively serve those units (Roads, Parks, Libraries, Childcare, Long Term Care, Waste Management, Sewer/Water, etc etc.)

Also worth noting that while such targets are nice and all, does the construction industry have the capacity to respond?

 

[Northern Light]

Also worth noting that while such targets are nice and all, does the construction industry have the capacity to respond?

No.

These would just be approvals gathering dust for the foreseeable future.

(not all of them, of course); but anything beyond the numbers of starts in 2022 is unrealistic in the near term; even if capacity (personnel) could be found, there's the matter of capital and
customers who can afford the finished product, be that for ownership or rental.

 

[adma]

Before development, they were located in farmland (speed limit 80 km/h?). It was when development moved in that the province downloaded those former provincial highways to the municipalities (speed limit 50 km/h, allegedly?).

That still doesn't/didn't make them "expressways". And they weren't even "semi-expressways" along the lines of the original QEW or some of today's RIRO affairs (Hwy 11 past Barrie, 35/115 N of the 401, etc). Though maybe Hwy 2/Kingston Rd came close in the 30s when it was divided and the Kingston/Danforth "split" was constructed--but other than said split, it was just a divided highway, not a controlled access highway. (The "controlled access" came a little later when the divided roadway was extended eastward across Highland Creek into the parallel routing of Hwy 2A aka the future first phase of the 401.)

"Expressway" denotes some kind of controlled access, a la the 400-series or the Gardiner/DVP or the "original" Spadina/Allen Rd stub (i.e. btw/Lawrence and the Wilson Hts off-ramp). And *maybe* Hwy 27 btw/the 401 and Belfield (which, unlike the Gardiner/DVP/Allen, was built as a provincial highway, not as a municipal roadway).

Hwy 410 is an expressway, The northward continuation of Hwy 410 and Hwy 10/Hurontario through Caledon is *not* an expressway, even if it's multi-laned and high-speed and treacherous. Heck, if we're talking about 80k as a benchmark, you might as well call much of Airport Rd an "expressway", in those intervals between towns and speed zones.

Maybe *these* days, provincial highways are understood as "expressways". But practically up to the massive Harris downloads, they served more as a legacy "mother road" network of blazed trails--to the point where even if the responsibility was downloaded and they served more as municipal arterials, Toronto still had Hwy 2 and Hwy 5 and Hwy 11 and even Hwy 11A marked on the map and street signage.

 

[allengeorge]

I’m with @Northern Light on the proposed CafeTO fees. This sounds excessive given the state of the restaurant industry and is almost certain to further tank interest. It almost seems written to ensure that parking remains the predominant use of road space.

BTW, not everything has to generate a profit for the city. Sometimes we should make policies and choices to ensure that we have a vibrant public realm - and patios are part of that.

 

[turini2]

Also worth noting that while such targets are nice and all, does the construction industry have the capacity to respond?

We have the same problem here in the UK - local authorities get measured by how many houses get built to completion, however construction is the only bit of the planning process we have no control over!

 

[adma]

Y'know, one thing that dawned on me re how one can have one's own poisoned cake and eat it too: if the province under DoFo takes over the Gardiner/DVP, that could also well wind up compounding the arteries' worst "urban expressway in the city" qualities if they were to be "improved" under DoFo's auspices. (And of course, with his modus operandi of "well, tough, I'm in charge now"...)

 

[allengeorge]

The Ontario-Toronto financing deal also promises hundreds of millions in new funding for homeless shelters and subway cars, but only if the federal government pays a share.

Speaking to reporters in Ottawa on Tuesday, federal Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland was noncommittal about new money for Toronto, saying her government was already providing “many times more” to Canada’s largest city than its predecessors.

Looks like we might be waiting a long while for those subway trains (let alone a real fiscal ‘New Deal’ for Canada’s cities)

Province’s Infrastructure Minister defends plan to expedite Ontario Place redevelopment

Report on cost of moving the Ontario Science Centre to Toronto’s waterfront to be released on Wednesday

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[zang]

Y'know, one thing that dawned on me re how one can have one's own poisoned cake and eat it too: if the province under DoFo takes over the Gardiner/DVP, that could also well wind up compounding the arteries' worst "urban expressway in the city" qualities if they were to be "improved" under DoFo's auspices. (And of course, with his modus operandi of "well, tough, I'm in charge now"...)

We’ll, nothing’s likely to happen to the Gardiner before the next election, and I have a feeling Douggy’s gonna be taking a hike.

At which point, a different government might view the Gardiner in a different light, especially if they have more lofty goals with regards to regional public transit.

I think overall it’s a good thing–as much as I’d like to see it torn down–as the province pre-Ford was more than willing to strike down putting a toll on it. It was just a really expensive albatross that’s now around the neck of the province.

 

[Richard White]

We’ll, nothing’s likely to happen to the Gardiner before the next election, and I have a feeling Douggy’s gonna be taking a hike.

At which point, a different government might view the Gardiner in a different light, especially if they have more lofty goals with regards to regional public transit.

I think overall it’s a good thing–as much as I’d like to see it torn down–as the province pre-Ford was more than willing to strike down putting a toll on it. It was just a really expensive albatross that’s now around the neck of the province.

I can see Doug trying to bury the Gardiner.

 

[adma]

I can see Doug trying to bury the Gardiner.

I can see Doug rebooting some of those James Alcock get-Toronto-moving "highwaycentric planning through the back door" schemes.

And in some ways, I have more fear of what a DoFo-ized DVP would be like--y'know, even more "expresswaylike" and less "parkwaylike" than it already is...

 

[zang]

I can see Doug trying to bury the Gardiner.

Years of EAs and planning won’t happen before the next election.

 

[FastidiousHack]

I’m with Northern Light on the proposed CafeTO fees. This sounds excessive given the state of the restaurant industry and is almost certain to further tank interest. It almost seems written to ensure that parking remains the predominant use of road space.

BTW, not everything has to generate a profit for the city. Sometimes we should make policies and choices to ensure that we have a vibrant public realm - and patios are part of that.

The fees seem high considering how much more economically productive patios are than parking. The tax on restaurant sales alone would earn the city more than parking revenue.

 

[Richard White]

The fees seem high considering how much more economically productive patios are than parking. The tax on restaurant sales alone would earn the city more than parking revenue.

Another fee increase that may have fallen under the radar is parking tickets.

I just got a note from the contracted parking enforcement company we deal with at my property. Turns out City Council doubled (more or less) the fines for parking illegally on private property from $30.00 to $70.00!

 

[FastidiousHack]

Another fee increase that may have fallen under the radar is parking tickets.

I just got a note from the contracted parking enforcement company we deal with at my property. Turns out City Council doubled (more or less) the fines for parking illegally on private property from $30.00 to $70.00!

Good, the cost of parking enforcement is absurdly high for how small the tickets are.

 

[Northern Light]

The fees seem high considering how much more economically productive patios are than parking. The tax on restaurant sales alone would earn the city more than parking revenue.

Agree w/the gist of the above; but for clarity, the City does not collect taxes off of restaurant sales.