[wyliepoon]

One thing I noticed that they designed well on the Sheppard subway is thathe stations are only built for 4-car train lengths. I imagine that the Sheppard subway wouldn't need a 6-car train for a long while yet and these station sizes seem appropriate for the area.

The Sheppard stations are built so that they could be easily converted for 6-car trains. You can see when pulling into Sheppard-Yonge that the eastern part of the platform has been walled off. Part of the long exit corridor leading east from the Leslie station platform can be converted into a platform extension simply by knocking down the side walls.

 

[catcher_of_cats]

Environmental assessment process to be shortened for Blue 22

AMANDA TRUSCOTT

January 5, 2009

The creation of a train linking Union Station to Pearson International Airport appears to have been fast-tracked after more than a decade mired in bureaucratic tangles and objections from local residents.

A new, shortened environmental assessment process adopted by the project's proponent, Metrolinx, could require as little as six months, as opposed to the three or more years taken by the previous assessment process.

Details about how much the air-rail link will cost, how long it will take to build, and whether the project will differ from the Blue 22 plan first proposed six years ago will be determined after the assessment has begun this spring, said Colleen Bell, a spokeswoman for Metrolinx. The Ontario Crown corporation announced in December that it would take over the project from GO Transit, although GO will still help build the infrastructure.

"It will be a new study; however, all of the community concerns and the data that was collected as part of the previous study will be validated, brought forward and considered as part of this one," she said.

Mike Sullivan, who heads the Weston Community Coalition, is suspicious about the reasons for coming up with a new environmental assessment process. "I think the 'accelerated' EA was designed specifically for this project," he said.

"Under the rules of a full EA, which the government promised, not only would other routes have to be at least considered, but the socio-economic impact on the local community had to be addressed. Now they can give that part lip service and we have no recourse."

Weston residents worry their community will end up divided, choked by fumes, assaulted by noise and excluded from any benefits. The Blue 22 plan would have sent diesel trains on a 22-minute trip through the Georgetown corridor, stopping only once at Dundas West station. The proposed ticket price was $20.

It's not the prospect of an air-rail link that upsets them, said Suri Weinberg-Linsky, another coalition member. It's the prospect of an above-ground diesel train constantly passing through town without stopping there, blocking roads along the way.

Weston residents submitted their views on Blue 22 in October, 2006, under the old environmental assessment process, she said. "Every letter that we sent to the ministry was 'Well, it's in this person's hands,' or 'It's on this person's desk,' or 'We're getting to it,' or 'We'll get back to you,' and two years passed," she said.

Ms. Bell said that assessment never made it beyond the preliminary stages.

Scott Armstrong, a spokesman for the Greater Toronto Airport Authority, said he hopes the shortened process means travellers will finally have a way to get to the airport without being hampered by conditions like the recent snowstorm that caused mayhem during the year's busiest travelling days.

"The taxis are naturally slower in a snowstorm, so the train would offer just a constant back and forth," he said.

An air-rail link should be more than just a fast way to get to the airport, Ms. Weinberg-Linsky said. "If you build it, build it right. Build it so that people can get on it at multiple locations. Build it so it's electric, not diesel, because diesel is outmoded, antiquated, obsolete technology."

Laura Albanese, Liberal MPP for York South-Weston, said her understanding was that the community would still get to have its say. "I've been saying all along that the local residents must benefit from this, hopefully with a transportation hub. It has to be part of the community; it cannot be built at the expense of the community."

 

[isittimetomoveyet]

...Ms. Weinberg-Linsky said. "If you build it, build it right. Build it so that people can get on it at multiple locations. Build it so it's electric, not diesel, because diesel is outmoded, antiquated, obsolete technology."

Precisely!

 

[jks]

Ok, POP seems to work great in other cities in the world. But you are forgetting that Toronto has a large number of fare paid areas. What's to stop someone from getting on the Sheppard LRT one station before the subway transfer, and get into the subway system. I mean unless there is a fare check person on every vehicle or the LRT doesn't enter the fare-paid zone, the TTC can potentially lose a lot of revenue. I really do agree that POP speeds up boarding and is more convenient, but these issues need to be looked at. After all, how many times has the fare-check person checked your fare on the 501?? And also, POP will require lots of new staff on the LRT, and seeing the TTC's history with its workers and wages, idk. These thing are crucial when implementing POP.

 

[RedRocket191]

Those are all valid concerns, but I think that if we adopt a "it won't work here" attitude then nothing will get done. In my opinion, it's such an attitude that has prevented modern light rail from getting a fair shake in this town.

Of course, I can anticipate the incoming responses to that last statement...

 

[CDL.TO]

Those are all valid concerns, but I think that if we adopt a "it won't work here" attitude then nothing will get done. In my opinion, it's such an attitude that has prevented modern light rail from getting a fair shake in this town.

I think modern light rail would get an enthusiastic response in this city if they actually proposed any.

Operationally and design-wise, Transit City has more in common with the legacy systems of Melbourne, Amsterdam, and Berlin than it does with the modern LRT systems of Calgary, Croydon, and Denver.

 

[jks]

Those are all valid concerns, but I think that if we adopt a "it won't work here" attitude then nothing will get done. In my opinion, it's such an attitude that has prevented modern light rail from getting a fair shake in this town.

Of course, I can anticipate the incoming responses to that last statement...

Oh, I'm not saying that "it won't work here", I'm just saying that they should do it. But, they should do it right! Not the half-baked "pilot projects" that we seem to be getting continuously from the TTC. (I must admit, they're all good ideas, but they always screw something up!)

 

[unimaginative2]

I've always been a big fan of light rail. I'm really pushing for it in Waterloo Region, for example. Unfortunately, the TTC hasn't had much success with the light rail routes it has already attempted to build. Spadina is a huge disappointment with streetcars arriving at completely random intervals and travel times that are absurdly long. After 20 years, the TTC has not even tried to implement a strategy to fix it. Then, they proposed another line on St. Clair. I was very enthusastic and attended a number of public meetings to help out SCRIPT and the other pro-light rail forces. Now, St. Clair is a project whose construction has been more delayed and disruptive than the most fanatical SOS member would have claimed and that offers virtually no travel time savings or improved reliability. I've now come to the conclusion that the TTC should not spend $10 billion of the province's money on LRT until it has made the lines that is has already built work. I hope that my disillusionment is understandable.

 

[Voltz]

I've always been a big fan of light rail. I'm really pushing for it in Waterloo Region, for example. Unfortunately, the TTC hasn't had much success with the light rail routes it has already attempted to build. Spadina is a huge disappointment with streetcars arriving at completely random intervals and travel times that are absurdly long. After 20 years, the TTC has not even tried to implement a strategy to fix it. Then, they proposed another line on St. Clair. I was very enthusastic and attended a number of public meetings to help out SCRIPT and the other pro-light rail forces. Now, St. Clair is a project whose construction has been more delayed and disruptive than the most fanatical SOS member would have claimed and that offers virtually no travel time savings or improved reliability. I've now come to the conclusion that the TTC should not spend $10 billion of the province's money on LRT until it has made the lines that is has already built work. I hope that my disillusionment is understandable.

Your disillusionment would be very understandable if the TC lines where planned to be exact copies of Spadina and St clair, but they are not,

I'll point out the main differences that can't be screwed up by TTC incompetence

• Vehicles- currently everyone slowly must file in through the front doors, causing long waits at stops, TC lines will not have this problem
• Platforms- Spadina's platforms will be mere slivers compared to the 3m wide stops on the TC lines, this will help with passenges spreading out at the stops,
• Stop Spacing- Average on Spadina is 280m, average on TC lines surface sections will vary between 450m to 600m, the intersection spacing on the TC streets is much wider as well, this will help with speed and vehicle spacing
• Wider intersection spacing and GPS tracking will allow for a more effective signal prioroty system, even if the system on spadina was turned on the only information it would know is if a vehicle is waiting at a red light
• TC lines are planned to operate under headway based control with in cab signaling, current lines have no control

Regarding St Clair, it is not much better than spadina, and it was not intented to be a LRT line in the sense that TC lines are, just because they may call it LRT does make it the same as the others, and only a short section has opened so far, there is no way to tell for sure how much of a difference it will make.

 

[jks]

IDK, I rode St Clair recently, and although the Priority was turned off, I found it much faster to get from St Clair West Stn to St Clair Stn. If only they actually turn on the signal priority (fingers crossed, but I'm not expecting much), It would really be a great improvement. With TC lines having less stops and intersections the TTC could really do TC right (fingers crossed, but I'm not expecting much here either)

 

[taal]

I'd like to know who's actually been on the St. Clair streetcar.

I find it quite a bit faster then the old route - in all my experience this route experiences little in the way of bunching and the timing is very good.

I'd call it a success no mater what anyone else says.

Once the rest of the route is completed though it'll be easier to judge if the timing is just as well maintained.

 

[drum118]

I'd like to know who's actually been on the St. Clair streetcar.

I find it quite a bit faster then the old route - in all my experience this route experiences little in the way of bunching and the timing is very good.

I'd call it a success no mater what anyone else says.

Once the rest of the route is completed though it'll be easier to judge if the timing is just as well maintained.

I have many times.

I have close to a 100 video's up on youtube including a ride on the ROW a month or two after it open and it faster than the old way.

It would be faster if the drivers did the speed limit.

TTC still gets bunch and it cause by drivers them self. Seen driver yell at other drivers for not been on schedule.

Once phase 2 gets build early 2010, TTC will be able to run as far as Lansdowne Loop that has been finish 6 months and counting.

Great planning on the city part, not TTC.

 

[CDL.TO]

I live off of St. Clair and use the streetcar ROW a couple times a week or more.

The biggest factor right now is how short the line is. At 1.8km, it's almost definitely the shortest route in the TTC network, and has SEVEN streetcars serving that short section of track! There is absolutely no reason for the line to be running unreliably, other than completely uncontrollable factors such as traffic collisions. So yeah, it's pretty reliable right now.

But yet, I still see streetcars leaving the terminals one after the other. I have sat on a streetcar, waiting for it to depart St. Clair station for over ten minutes when the scheduled frequency is every three minutes. Don't be surprised to see 4 streetcars sitting in the loop st St. Clair station (maybe even backed out of the station and blocking traffic on St. Clair Ave).

Streetcars usually crawl along the line. But every now and then, you get a driver who takes advantage of the ROW and zips right along. Clearly, all trips should operate like this. If you look at the TTC's service summary for Saturday mornings, it's telling that the 512 streetcar operating between Yonge and St. Clair West is scheduled to have an average speed of 11.3 km/h, while the 512 bus between St. Clair West and Keele (with no ROW, dealing with mixed traffic, and with ongoing construction) is scheduled to move at an average of 15.0 km/h.

I think that all that needs to be done is to reduce scheduled trip times, increase scheduled speed, and improve line management do drivers actually depart terminals on schedule to get the maximum benefit out of this line.

 

[Voltz]

^^^

The average (scheduled) speed on the St Clair to St Clair West section is lower because the figure likely includes the time the Vehicles spend laying over at terminals, this time has a larger effect on this shorter route,

St Clair's biggest problem is they have not been managing the vehicles, and just letting the drivers do whatever they want, when the next section of the line opens they need to move to headway based control, and let the vehicles go as fast as they can without having to stick to a schedule.

 

[CDL.TO]

St Clair's biggest problem is they have not been managing the vehicles, and just letting the drivers do whatever they want, when the next section of the line opens they need to move to headway based control, and let the vehicles go as fast as they can without having to stick to a schedule.

I'm really, really looking forward to this. I hope the roll out is successful and it's implemented on as many routes as possible.