[drum118]

Because transit dreams never come true in Toronto on time

Does anyone know why the Metrolinx RTP only has a by 2041 plan and not a 2031 plan? Did we pass the point where new plans will not be able to be completed by 2031

Yes and even TTC has 2041 now

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It will be in your dream as it will never go there unless TTC changes gauges. Its not even in any 2041 transit plan at this time. Long Branch Loop will be upgraded to a Hub.

Any reason why TTC gauge track can't be extended into Mississauga to Hurontario?

 

[drum118]

Any reason why TTC gauge track can't be extended into Mississauga to Hurontario?

Because the line will connect to the Hurontario Line which is standard gauge. Also, Mississauga LRV will be duel end using stub track while TTC needs a loop and no land for a loop let along streets.

 

[TransitBart]

Because the line will connect to the Hurontario Line which is standard gauge. Also, Mississauga LRV will be duel end using stub track while TTC needs a loop and no land for a loop let along streets.

A loop can always be on-street like the TTC Spadina Charlotte loop. There is no need necessarily to acquire land.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Because the line will connect to the Hurontario Line which is standard gauge. Also, Mississauga LRV will be duel end using stub track while TTC needs a loop and no land for a loop let along streets.

But must the Lakeshore West LRT tracks physically connect to the Hurontario LRT tracks? I don't see why thats necessary. They could just be operated as part of two totally different systems. The downside obviously being that there could not be a single line providing continuous thru service to both Hurontarario and Lakeshore.

 

[DopeyFish]

Because the line will connect to the Hurontario Line which is standard gauge. Also, Mississauga LRV will be duel end using stub track while TTC needs a loop and no land for a loop let along streets.

Er what. No I was just talking about having the services uses the same termination point for ease of movement. Also the LRT would be using same gauge as mississauga anyways and be dual ended trains so they don't need a loop, just a spur connected to both directions. Remember Waterfront West LRT is a Metrolinx plan, not a TTC one.

 

[rbt]

Good one.

I think the bigger question is what happens when Patrick Brown becomes Premier.

At this time I'd give him a minority. So whatever happens, it'll be sloppy and likely quite unpredictable as it'll involve NDP input in some way. That said, the banks are generally for boosted GO service in lieu of a tax break.

 

[Filip]

demand patterns are different. Much more auto reliance and more dispersed trips in Humber Bay than East Bayfront - The LRT in East Bayfront would see far higher ridership than from Humber Bay Shores.

Plus the big difference is the institutional and large employment uses in East Bayfront that are lacking in Humber Bay. This is more so the real driver of need for East Bayfront - the residential uses are secondary.

Of course there's bloody auto reliance when there's next to no transit to speak of.

I doubt east bay front ridership will be high. Hence why it was never built. Send some articulated buses from union and call it a day. When you're a 15 min walk from downtown you don't need higher order transit like other neighbourhoods do.

 

[crs1026]

Because transit dreams never come true in Toronto on time

Does anyone know why the Metrolinx RTP only has a by 2041 plan and not a 2031 plan? Did we pass the point where new plans will not be able to be completed by 2031

The original Big Move plan (2008) had 15 and 25 year horizons. Not surprising that the 2017 plan has new horizons of about the same range.

While it has been a frustrating decade watching some things not get done, and/or only get out of the gate recently..... if you compare what we have today versus 2008, there has been a lot of progress. One has to keep in mind that this plan is simply aspirational, it doesn't come with any guarantees that anything will happen. It is useful in that it clarifies which items have low priorities (the 2041 items) and it sort of gives a mental model of what the goal ought to be. But, like the 2008 document, we will be fortunate if only half of it gets done.

The mantra that every transit observer, media pundit, and average citizen needs to learn and use when politicians come calling is, "why aren't you sticking to the Big Move, and getting on with that?". The pols will want to rewrite it so they can advance personal agendas and take credit for things. We need to hold their feet to the fire to stick to the script.

As for ML, the question ought to be "what are the long lead time items, and where is the proof that you are advancing these as highest priority?" If you look at RER, ML has spent much of the last decade doing pretty things that look good in today's photo ops (eg stations) but dawdling or vaccilating on the longer, harder things (like track and electrification) that determine when new capacity will come on line.

The only thing in the new plan that gives me pause is leaving the priority bus to 2041. That item is cheap, and would extend the network to cover the greatest area, so that the greatest number of people and places were on the grid. Reminds me of Transit City all over again.

- Paul

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Er what. No I was just talking about having the services uses the same termination point for ease of movement. Also the LRT would be using same gauge as mississauga anyways and be dual ended trains so they don't need a loop, just a spur connected to both directions. Remember Waterfront West LRT is a Metrolinx plan, not a TTC one.

WWLRT must use TTC gauge, since it's the only way it can interface with Union Station, the 509, 510 and 512.

 

[drum118]

Er what. No I was just talking about having the services uses the same termination point for ease of movement. Also the LRT would be using same gauge as mississauga anyways and be dual ended trains so they don't need a loop, just a spur connected to both directions. Remember Waterfront West LRT is a Metrolinx plan, not a TTC one.

Nope, its a TTC and was approved years ago as I was part of the team.

You are using the existing TTC system and therefore my comment stands.

 

[crs1026]

Try over 10,000 units. The LCBO Lands alone are expected to house around 10,000 people. You have Tridel's complex of 5 buildings, a college campus, significant employment space of several million square feet, thousands of condo units in One Yonge, LCBO Lands, Daniels Lakeshore, 215 Lake Shore, Tridel's Lower Donlands, the next waterfront Toronto phase which is looking for a development partner right now, etc.

Today the the East Bayfront has a school, office, and condo. By the time the LRT is built, it will have far, far more. You cannot underestimate the growth of residential, employment, and institutional uses in the area. It is critically important a proper transit link is constructed.

In the interest of fairness across parts of the city - East Bayfront should have to wait every bit as long for its transit as Humber Bay has waited (and is still waiting) for its transit. The first big condos (Marina Del Ray IIRC) went up at the Humber in what - 1998ish?

The theory that you build infrastructure as development begins, so it's there when needed, is fine but is badly abused in this city. If we are going to insist on that, there is catching up to do.

- Paul

 

[drum118]

But must the Lakeshore West LRT tracks physically connect to the Hurontario LRT tracks? I don't see why thats necessary. They could just be operated as part of two totally different systems. The downside obviously being that there could not be a single line providing continuous thru service to both Hurontarario and Lakeshore.

Peel master plan back in 2006 show both lines connecting to each other and has remain that way when the Hurontario Line was plan to go to Port Credit Waterfront.

Mississauga is putting in $26 million for a Tunnel Station at Port Credit GO Station to allow the line to go underground for the Lakeshore line in Port Credit and part of the Hurontario tender at this time. There will be no full east-west line on Lakeshore, only to Long Branch and Imperial Oil Land.

 

[MisterF]

Of course there's bloody auto reliance when there's next to no transit to speak of.

I doubt east bay front ridership will be high. Hence why it was never built. Send some articulated buses from union and call it a day. When you're a 15 min walk from downtown you don't need higher order transit like other neighbourhoods do.

East Bayfront will generate major ridership for the LRT that runs through it. It's not just residential in that area, but also office and institutional uses, which generate more ridership. It will have huge density too. Trying to serve that with buses would be a bad joke. That's not to say that Humber Bay Shores doesn't badly need better transit, but you could say that about a lot of the city, including downtown.

Attacking one part of the city to try to benefit another part is a very Fordian move. Attitudes like that only make things worse.

 

[crs1026]

Attacking one part of the city to try to benefit another part is a very Fordian move. Attitudes like that only make things worse.

Which is why we should correct the longstanding issues first, before we move on to putting in transit for new developments (that haven't happened yet) and thereby rubbing the inequities in anyone's nose.

- Paul