[drum118]

Well here's the larger picture that you overlook:

https://www.thestar.com/business/20...-in-rail-business-to-quebec-pension-fund.html

If you send your kids to university, and are pressed to find the money to doing so, but the government steps in to loan them the money, you are getting an *indirect* subsidy.

The real question is the viability of the Millhaven plant to "supply all of North America" with LRT orders. Well guess what's changed south of the border?

Who going to use BBD for LRT in the next 10 years in the US with not only our mess, but Trump Buy America?? BBD would be far better off by having a plant in the US like they do for subway cars than having one in Canada where is is next to no market for cars there.

Since most major orders have been place, it leaves only small orders for the next decade or so.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Based on the number of cars for both lines, you can have 2 different suppliers and can be done by due date.

The same goes for Mississauga and Hamilton.

If an order was place in 2018, first car would show up in 2020, depending when order was place.

What's in the pipeline for the TBay facility? Anything after the TTC and ML Flexities?

 

[APTA-2048]

More Bilevels and Edmonton's LRVs come to mind. And if I'm not mistaken, ICTS for Riyadh (starting in Mexico with final work and testing in Millhaven).

 

[dowlingm]

Bombardier assembled Flexity Swift for Minneapolis in Plattsburgh. No reason they could not do so again.

 

[steveintoronto]

Pensions. Are. Not. The. Government.

Now you're really veering off the point in discussion:

Government Guarantees
A popular type of indirect subsidy is the government loan guarantee. A government agency provides support by acting as a co-signer in credit transactions, ensuring that the recipient of the benefit has what it needs to operate successfully. The U.S. Small Business Administration is a government agency that provides this type of indirect subsidy by guaranteeing small business loans for the private sector.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/indirect-subsidiary-42411.html

Guess how a direct loan is viewed!

I come back to the original claim by BBD for the new Millhaven plant to "supply the North American market" for light transit products. First some quotes of their claims:

After scathing critiques from the Toronto Transit Commission, transportation giant Bombardier is pulling a track switch in an attempt to fix its current course.

On May 20, Bombardier announced a production shift to alleviate pressure from its Thunder Bay facility — which has been tasked with completing a $1.25 billion TTC project — by shifting all non-TTC related work to its Kingston centre.

At the same time, the company announced that projects at its Mexican facility, pegged with quality concerns, are to be transferred to La Pocatiere, Que.
[...]
The newest Bombardier/TTC production schedule — detailed by Bombardier’s Transit CEO Andy Byford on May 18 — promises that 16 more streetcars will be produced by the end of 2016, 40 more in 2017, 76 in 2018, and 57 in 2019.

These quotas will be met by transferring two other projects — for the GTA Metrolinx and the Region of Waterloo — to Kingston’s facility at Millhaven.

The facility currently employs approximately 320 people, but was not pegged to suffer from Bombardier’s job-cut announcement in February. The company will be shaving 7,000 jobs over the next two years, with more than half occurring in the rail transport sector.

In Kingston, however, the job losses were projected to be in the “single digits,” according to Bombardier in February. Lefebvre said that this confidence was not exerted with prior knowledge of the production shift.
[...]
However, in the wake of the production shift announcement, those employees will now be moved towards the Metrolinx project after completing their work for Kuala Lumpur.

Lefebvre said there may eventually be a “ramp-up of production activity” and some extra employment, but the company doesn’t yet have the workforce planning to discuss the matter.

“It’s something we’ll look at when we start production in October of this year,” he noted.
[...]
“We want to make sure that the [TTC] project is delivered as quickly as possible. That is why we made the decision to take the Metrolinx project and shift it to Kingston.”

http://www.thewhig.com/2016/05/30/companys-shift-benefits-local-plant

Bombardier: Serving the world from Kingston

http://www.thewhig.com/2016/04/21/bombardier-serving-the-world-from-kingston

Bombardier completes expansion

By Elliot Ferguson, Kingston Whig-Standard

Thursday, December 8, 2016 5:03:52 EST PM
[...]
The Millhaven plant expansion was announced in May when Bombardier revealed plans to relieve pressure on its Thunder Bay facility — which has been tasked with completing a $1.25 billion Toronto Transit Commission project — by shifting all non-TTC related work to its Kingston centre.

The company plans to turn its Kingston facility into a hub for light rail car production for Canada and the United States, Lefebvre said.

http://www.thewhig.com/2016/12/08/bombardier-completes-expansion

I ask yet again! How are they going to supply the US with the present understanding of Trumponomics?

I do see a way for dealing with the Rest of World: Completely sever the rail division from BBD International. BBD executive/family has resisted that in each and every instance suggested.

Millhaven, as is, is not going to survive on the present course.

 

[steveintoronto]

Further to the above re Millhaven factory in jeopardy due to Trumponomics:

 

[TOareaFan]

https://twitter.com/moore_oliver/status/831228485268013056

 

[cplchanb]

so either their warranty is only 3 years (which is absolute rubbish considering the equipment scope)
or they assume they can have almost 200 cars built in less than 3 years at which only a portion of those
will have their warranties expire due to the first rubbish reason..... nice...
shouldnt the warranty be counted from the first day of revenue service and not when they are accepted? Makes zero
sense for such a project....one needs to stockpile and build up their fleet before they can start a newly built line....

 

[DKsan]

The first LRV is shipping from Thunder Bay to Waterloo Region tomorrow, will take 10-12 days to arrive.

And there's a train tracker.

 

[steveintoronto]

https://twitter.com/moore_oliver/status/831228485268013056

Whether it stands the test of common-sense or not is irrelevant for the court case. "Bomber" have a powerful point in any proceedings on this and some other aspects.

shouldnt the warranty be counted from the first day of revenue service and not when they are accepted?

It all depends on the agreed contract.

 

[cplchanb]

Whether it stands the test of common-sense or not is irrelevant for the court case. "Bomber" have a powerful point in any proceedings on this and some other aspects.
It all depends on the agreed contract.

PLEASE for the love of god whoever negotiated the contract had a brain.........

 

[steveintoronto]

PLEASE for the love of god whoever negotiated the contract had a brain.........

I felt like a hyper-cynic raising that point, but Metrolinx are hardly strangers to such bungles. Bomber, if they have sharp attorneys, will find all sorts of loopholes.

Let's jump ahead, and take bets on this: "Will someone's head roll at Metrolinx if they did leave the car barn door open?"

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I felt like a hyper-cynic raising that point, but Metrolinx are hardly strangers to such bungles. Bomber, if they have sharp attorneys, will find all sorts of loopholes.

Let's jump ahead, and take bets on this: "Will someone's head roll at Metrolinx if they did leave the car barn door open?"

I think the management of the Crosstown project should be turned over to the TTC at least they know what they are doing when it comes to buying vehicles and laying out infrastructure. Yesther have been problems with daylas on the Spadina expansion project but not all of them are the fault of the poel that werr overseeing the building of it.

 

[cplchanb]

I think the management of the Crosstown project should be turned over to the TTC at least they know what they are doing when it comes to buying vehicles and laying out infrastructure. Yesther have been problems with daylas on the Spadina expansion project but not all of them are the fault of the poel that werr overseeing the building of it.

If anyone they should turn it over to the ones who did the Markham viva rapidways
On time and on budget

Thing is its not really which agency does it but rather coordination and communication between contractor and client. We saw the disaster that was spadina when there was a rift between those two but on the other hand viva rapidways were a success in terms of construction.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

If anyone they should turn it over to the ones who did the Markham viva rapidways
On time and on budget

Thing is its not really which agency does it but rather coordination and communication between contractor and client. We saw the disaster that was spadina when there was a rift between those two but on the other hand viva rapidways were a success in terms of construction.

Either way they need to turn it over to someone the only reason I said the TTC was because they have experience overseeing the various Streetcar projects in the city as well as the building of subway stations and lines too. I think Metrolinks was given to much power on this project and they are letting it go to their heads the gong show that city council has been with our Ford and Tory as far as transit has been concerned hasn't helped at all. The constant changing of plans from adding subways and Dumb Track into the mix hasn't helped at all just hindered the development of transit in Toronto. If we had gone ahead with the original plan we would be looking at seeing LRT's running from Kenedy to sheppard by now.