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EastYorkTTCFan said:
Either way they need to turn it over to someone the only reason I said the TTC was because they have experience overseeing the various Streetcar projects in the city as well as the building of subway stations and lines too. I think Metrolinks was given to much power on this project and they are letting it go to their heads the gong show that city council has been with our Ford and Tory as far as transit has been concerned hasn't helped at all. The constant changing of plans from adding subways and Dumb Track into the mix hasn't helped at all just hindered the development of transit in Toronto. If we had gone ahead with the original plan we would be looking at seeing LRT's running from Kenedy to sheppard by now.
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Definitely not ttc....their experience is vast but lately it has been terrible..... Presto installations...St Clair.....spadina....transit network 2011. They need to hire somebody foreign with positive experience and not embroiled with all this ttc Metrolinx bs
 
cplchanb said:
Definitely not ttc....their experience is vast but lately it has been terrible..... Presto installations...St Clair.....spadina....transit network 2011. They need to hire somebody foreign with positive experience and not embroiled with all this ttc Metrolinx bs
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Not all of those are there fault most of them are actually City councilors who think they know everything just because they are elected. Presto is being rolled out by Metrolinks the TTC was shoehorned into it by them. St Clair was a problem because of a bunch of business dragging things out and the Hydro digging up the street after it was comple. Spadina only has problems because Toront Transposition doesn't think public transit is a priority over left turning vehicles and other traffic on the streets.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Not all of those are there fault most of them are actually City councilors who think they know everything just because they are elected. Presto is being rolled out by Metrolinks the TTC was shoehorned into it by them. St Clair was a problem because of a bunch of business dragging things out and the Hydro digging up the street after it was comple. Spadina only has problems because Toront Transposition doesn't think public transit is a priority over left turning vehicles and other traffic on the streets.
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But who elects the Board of Directors for Toronto Hydro? The owner. The city (i.e. city council). 5 current or former Councillors, 6 lawyers, 1 accountant and 1 professional public sector Board member. How is this group going to govern an electrical distributor? Where is the engineer? How about someone who knows about exceptional service delivery?

TTC has a similar problem. They did not first identify which areas the Board was weak at before going to find Board members. Instead we have 3 or 4 great people but they are very similar to the existing members.

A board is comprised of a bunch of people who all want to govern a company but each with unique skills where the group is greater than the sum of the parts (like a good hockey team). Toronto continues not to see this and appoints people without looking at the totality of their skills.
 
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne...34025943/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

This part is interesting.

The Bombardier executive said that discussions with Metrolinx had hit a dead end, making it impossible for the company to work productively with its client. And when the transit agency failed to meet a Feb. 3 deadline to appoint its representative to a key dispute review panel – a forum Bombardier hoped would conclude the company wasn't in default of its responsibilities – the company concluded Metrolinx was on the verge of killing the contract.
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Very interesting. All BBD have to do short of a court ruling is present the engineers' logs signing off on the testing phase to the press. We really don't know what the facts are, but I get a distinct whiff of BBD's claim "alleging that Metrolinx staff are inefficient and unexperienced (sic)" being accurate. Whether that absolves them of their contractual terms remains to be seen.

All Metrolinx had to do is present a signed engineer's report verifying their claim to the press. It's quite revealing as to how Metrolinx is acting on this, facts of the case besides.

Del Duca:
"I find it interesting that in the span of a few days, Bombardier has chosen to pursue legal action and release videos," he said in a statement provided Monday. "As anyone who has followed the delays involving the TTC streetcars knows, it would be better for all involved if all of our suppliers focused on meeting deadlines instead of playing games."

Whoa....methinks Metrolinx is losing it.
 
When there's a legal dispute, nothing is going out to the press from either side. Your lawyers have to be complete idiots do approve of that.
 
amnesiajune said:
When there's a legal dispute, nothing is going out to the press from either side. Your lawyers have to be complete idiots do approve of that.
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Well, that depends on what you want to win; the court trial or public opinion. It actually explains, albeit indirectly, in that article that Bombardier cares far less about the Metrolinx contract than they do about their chances in future tenders, and that the bad press is starting to impact that. I think they'd be happy to drop the Metrolinx contract for cost of work completed if Metrolinx said publicly that Bombardier did everything right.
 
It would be interesting to see if Metrolinx does drops Bombardier, who will supply the LRVs. Bombardier is subcontracted through Crosslinx to install the ATO signalling system and maintain the vehicles. They have the ability to screw up the entire project and delay everything. The best thing is to sort out the problem and get the line up and running. Getting rid of Bombardier would simply delay the opening while Bombardier can jack up the prices for their proprietary ATO equipment to be installed on Siemens or Alstom LRVs. It offers taxpayers no benefits and the line won't open in time. The Crosstown needs something like 76 vehicles which would take 2-3 years to manufacture plus plant setup time. It's too late to drop Bombardier (assuming they will deliver).

I really don't know what Metrolinx would do with 182 vehicles in total. Metrolinx probably wants to trim the size of the order anyways. Finch West + Crosstown + ION only needs about 115. Crosstown West and east would need to be built to utilize most of it.
 
Steve X said:
It would be interesting to see if Metrolinx does drops Bombardier, who will supply the LRVs. Bombardier is subcontracted through Crosslinx to install the ATO signalling system and maintain the vehicles. They have the ability to screw up the entire project and delay everything. The best thing is to sort out the problem and get the line up and running. Getting rid of Bombardier would simply delay the opening while Bombardier can jack up the prices for their proprietary ATO equipment to be installed on Siemens or Alstom LRVs. It offers taxpayers no benefits and the line won't open in time. The Crosstown needs something like 76 vehicles which would take 2-3 years to manufacture plus plant setup time. It's too late to drop Bombardier (assuming they will deliver).

I really don't know what Metrolinx would do with 182 vehicles in total. Metrolinx probably wants to trim the size of the order anyways. Finch West + Crosstown + ION only needs about 115. Crosstown West and east would need to be built to utilize most of it.
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I wonder if this whole thing is just a ploy by Metrol,inxs to renegotiate the contract on their terms rather then the one they inherited from the city?
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
I wonder if this whole thing is just a ploy by Metrol,inxs to renegotiate the contract on their terms rather then the one they inherited from the city?
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Probably but Metrolinx has no idea what they are doing. They never had a LRT line and knows nothing about rapid transit and it's operations. They don't know what they need. The whole project was setup by the TTC and they just took control. Good thing TTC has an influence over the line or it would be a major disaster.

Metrolinx is just pulling shit out for nothing. It's their fault and Queen's Park for delaying the line and not building Sheppard so they have no test tracks at all. How are they even going to find out what's wrong with the prototype if it was just to sit in the corner. TTC conducted all sorts of testings the the TRs and Flexity's before they enter final production. When could Metrolinx even do that by? late 2019? Give it half a year to test and they'll have the production line start in mid 2020? They'll have like only 25-30 LRVs by the time line testing starts in mid 2021. Bombardier isn't stupid enough to manufacture a fleet of vehicles just to find a major flaw in the prototype and would have to recall all of them.

TTC has a legitimate reason to call Bombardier out. Metrolinx don't. They probably want to create some reason so they can recover some money like the TTC is trying to get $50m in damage. This could be just another liberal BS to reduce committed dollars as their pot runs dryer. Bombardier admit failure to the TTC but Metrolinx gets the finger. TTC is taking the correct actions as a quality product is what counts at the end.
 
Steve X said:
Probably but Metrolinx has no idea what they are doing. They never had a LRT line and knows nothing about rapid transit and it's operations. They don't know what they need. The whole project was setup by the TTC and they just took control. Good thing TTC has an influence over the line or it would be a major disaster.

Metrolinx is just pulling shit out for nothing. It's their fault and Queen's Park for delaying the line and not building Sheppard so they have no test tracks at all. How are they even going to find out what's wrong with the prototype if it was just to sit in the corner. TTC conducted all sorts of testings the the TRs and Flexity's before they enter final production. When could Metrolinx even do that by? late 2019? Give it half a year to test and they'll have the production line start in mid 2020? They'll have like only 25-30 LRVs by the time line testing starts in mid 2021. Bombardier isn't stupid enough to manufacture a fleet of vehicles just to find a major flaw in the prototype and would have to recall all of them.

TTC has a legitimate reason to call Bombardier out. Metrolinx don't. They probably want to create some reason so they can recover some money like the TTC is trying to get $50m in damage. This could be just another liberal BS to reduce committed dollars as their pot runs dryer. Bombardier admit failure to the TTC but Metrolinx gets the finger. TTC is taking the correct actions as a quality product is what counts at the end.
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I would love to see them called out on this at their meeting but I doubt they would let a member of the public make any such aligations to the board.
 
Steve X said:
They probably want to create some reason so they can recover some money like the TTC is trying to get $50m in damage.
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It's more than that. BBD indicate that Metrolinx wouldn't even negotiate. They were simply trying to terminate contract.

On one hand, that would get them out of ordering so many vehicles. But on the other, I doubt they'll get them as cheaply, or on time.
 
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