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Electrify said:
I think before Presto is ready for prime time on the TTC and OC Transpo, they need to fix the problems. That sounds obvious, but it is the kinds of problems which need addressing. To start, alternatives need to be looked at for tapping off. I don't mean to cater to the lowest common denominator, but besides those unfamiliar with the transit system getting screwed over, there are those with memory issues for whom it would be difficult to remember to tap off.
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There's no requirement to tap off on either TTC or OC Transpo. Or any other transit system that uses Presto, other than GO. That's not the issue in Ottawa. It seems to be related to the different hardware and/or software they are using there.
 
nfitz said:
There's no requirement to tap off on either TTC or OC Transpo. Or any other transit system that uses Presto, other than GO. That's not the issue in Ottawa. It seems to be related to the different hardware and/or software they are using there.
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Correct. The only reason there is tap off at GO is that they have a fare by distance system. Most (all?) municipal systems are flat fare so no need to tap off.
 
Electrify said:
To start, alternatives need to be looked at for tapping off. I don't mean to cater to the lowest common denominator, but besides those unfamiliar with the transit system getting screwed over, there are those with memory issues for whom it would be difficult to remember to tap off.
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Tap-off requirements aren't some sort of silly infernal complexity that was added here and here alone, though... it's always been a part of all the so-called "benchmark" smart cards internationally: Octopus, Suica, Oyster, OV-chipkaart etc.
 
Platform 27 said:
Tap-off requirements aren't some sort of silly infernal complexity that was added here and here alone, though... it's always been a part of all the so-called "benchmark" smart cards internationally: Octopus, Suica, Oyster, OV-chipkaart etc.
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Any other system I've had to tap-off, there have been fare-gates to go through, that open when you tap off. It's the lack of those that can lead to forgetting to tap off here - which I confess to having done a couple of times (but both times was still in sight of station, and returned to tap out). The default GO thing is an issue too ... as it means there are different rules for different people, and complex rules for some doing anything other than their default trip.

There's no magic answers though ... gate lines at Union for GO would be a nightmare. And problematic at other GO stations where the pedestrian tunnel doubles as a public path.

How does Oyster deal with suburban rail services? There is no gate line I assume. I've only used it on the tube.
 
nfitz said:
Any other system I've had to tap-off, there have been fare-gates to go through, that open when you tap off. It's the lack of those that can lead to forgetting to tap off here - which I confess to having done a couple of times (but both times was still in sight of station, and returned to tap out). The default GO thing is an issue too ... as it means there are different rules for different people, and complex rules for some doing anything other than their default trip.

There's no magic answers though ... gate lines at Union for GO would be a nightmare. And problematic at other GO stations where the pedestrian tunnel doubles as a public path.

How does Oyster deal with suburban rail services? There is no gate line I assume. I've only used it on the tube.
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I actually see the default trip as something that minimizes the issue. I would bet the vast majority of GO Presto users make the same return trip 5 days a week...48 weeks (+/-) a year and are intelligent enough to have figured out that by establishing a default trip they don't have to tap off.

When the system was implemented I feared that we had taken a fairly smooth system (in terms of getting off trains and off of platforms) and were going to create lineups as people tapped off. Honestly, it has not happened. I use the system less than most and never set a default trip.......and what I notice is that very few people are tapping off of trains. So much so that when I saw a guy tapping off last night (geeez that sounded "dirty") I actually noticed that I was not the only idiot!
 
It's wonderful that Presto is finally being rolled out (other than on the TTC). It makes riding in the 905 so much easier. On the other hand, they need to have far more Presto automated filling machines, accepting credit and debit cards. It's crazy that it takes 24 hours to refill the card. A rider should be able to refill on their smartphone as they're walking to the station.
 
Electrify said:
Using a credit or debit card on an open payment machine, will it deduct a cash fare or the token bulk fare?
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The card can be attached to a customer profile just as easily as a Presto card, technically, but Accenture is special). Presto devices at TTC stations currently charge $2.60 flat.

In my ideal world it would be a cash fare for the 1st trip (covers transaction fee and card authentication to prove it is valid) and a token fare for all trips after that with a cap of $126 per 30 day period.

The cap would require a single card to rider. You wouldn't be able to share it any more than a metropass is shared today (one rider at a time).

Picked 30 days because it's good for the consumer despite the TTC potentially getting 5 extra days charges out of some customers.
 
Jonny5 said:
That was 8 weeks ago. I am still waiting for my replacement card to come.

I have called customer service twice already. The first time was two weeks after requesting the replacement. The agent I spoke to said GO should have issued me a new card on the spot instead of telling me to call customer service, but a new card was already on its way in the mail. Two weeks after that without receiving it, I called again. This time the agent said the card had just been put in the mail that day. That was also after about 20 minutes of the agent trying to call it up on "this dumb computer" and sounding completely clueless.

I am now on hold for my third attempt at sorting this out, however, due to higher than normal call volumes, all their representatives are currently busy. My estimated wait time is 40 minutes...

PRESTO customer service is total garbage.
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I received my new PRESTO card today, more than 3 moths after this saga began. PRESTO has kept the explanation to themselves, but, from what I have gleaned, it probably was some kind of oddity in the payment system that blocked issuing me a new car. They confirmed that when my card stopped working, I was in the middle of a trip and in the middle of having a balance added. The syste probably wouldn't send me a new card as I never tapped off from my last trip.

Once I got a hold of a Supervisor at PRESTO customer service things started moving much faster. The sup arranged for me to get a new card at no charge and to transfer my balance. The sup even let me choose which GO station I wanted to pick up my free card. I chose Union, but unfortunately, it was actually not there waiting for me.

I want to give big props to the GO customer service staff who got me a new card today for free. They were very professional and very on the ball, especially considering they were have big service problems due to the pedestrian fatality. If only they had just given me a new card that night 3 months ago.....

I stand by my derision of their customer service. The Feedback form process to log problems is so cumbersom and archaic. Even when they email you back after submitting a Feedback From, you can't reply to them by email. You have to send another Feedback form in. They are running at about 4 business days to reply to Fedback Froms right now.
 
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nfitz said:
Any other system I've had to tap-off, there have been fare-gates to go through, that open when you tap off. It's the lack of those that can lead to forgetting to tap off here - which I confess to having done a couple of times (but both times was still in sight of station, and returned to tap out). The default GO thing is an issue too ... as it means there are different rules for different people, and complex rules for some doing anything other than their default trip.

There's no magic answers though ... gate lines at Union for GO would be a nightmare. And problematic at other GO stations where the pedestrian tunnel doubles as a public path.

How does Oyster deal with suburban rail services? There is no gate line I assume. I've only used it on the tube.
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Not sure about Oyster, but my Myki (My-key) experience here in Melbourne: much of the rail system outside the centre of the city / big suburban stations have no barriers and the issue has become a lack of myki machines and queues for people waiting to touch-off at the end of the journey.

the overwhelming majority of people remember to do it, but there's just a backlog at some busy stations.

they tried to half-arse it by adapting the old gates in the central stations to use the mykis but they were incredibly slow and they're slowly rolling out new myki specific gates and the queues in the city are slowly reducing.

Trams have always been enter any door / exit any door (honour system) and the same is still with myki but the government recognised early on that making people touch off a tram would delay everything considerably. So trams are the only mode where you dont need to touch off except if you're on the 2 routes (out of 30) which stretch out into Zone 2 (only ~5% of the tram network is in Zone 2 - so there's no need to touch off in pretty much most cases as you're always in Zone 1).
 
The PRESTO Card system isn't perfect but works well when things go smoothly. The funny thing I noticed on the GO is that is costs me LESS to do a bus to train connection then straight up train. It works out to be $1 less per ride....that is a lot of money GO will lose from me now that I know the trick!
 
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