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You also need transfers if you get short-turned - or else you get charged twice (for tapping twice on the same route in a row).

In the same way, if you were (for example) to take a 510 streetcar entering service from Queen/Leslie signed for Spadina station, and got off on Spadina changing to a southbound 510 to Front - you'd also get a second charge, and need to take a transfer.
Well that's definitely in the set of what software engineers call "corner cases." In the event of a short turn, I don't plan to tap a second time when I get onto the new vehicle. I find in general, the operators know when there's a vehicle that's been short turned in front of them.
 
Yeah it seems quite a lot of TTC drivers are unaware of the rules, but I think they are slowly getting the hang of it. It is a new system after all.

Not just drivers - I've heard there are fare collectors discouraging people from buying Presto cards by saying things like 'It's a waste of money' or (bizarrely) 'That's only for GO trains!'.
 
Not just drivers - I've heard there are fare collectors discouraging people from buying Presto cards by saying things like 'It's a waste of money' or (bizarrely) 'That's only for GO trains!'.
That seems really odd since presto has been fully deployed and heavily used at so many downtown stations for a long time now.
 
Well that's definitely in the set of what software engineers call "corner cases." In the event of a short turn, I don't plan to tap a second time when I get onto the new vehicle. I find in general, the operators know when there's a vehicle that's been short turned in front of them.
And yet I've seen people tapping on the car following the short-turning car. Which is what the posted rules say to do.
 
I've been denied back door boarding on streetcars several times, once as recently as a couple of weeks ago. It boggles my mind how ill informed some drivers remain. I guess it's a microcosm of the "I don't give a shit" reality of these union jobs for life employees.
 
I've been denied back door boarding on streetcars several times, once as recently as a couple of weeks ago. It boggles my mind how ill informed some drivers remain. I guess it's a microcosm of the "I don't give a shit" reality of these union jobs for life employees.

That's what I hate about the TTC--a complete lack of care for the experience of their customers. It's proof of payment, and the rules say it's all door boarding. After POP rollout on the 509, I was regularly been denied rear-door boarding by CLRV/ALRV drivers, probably about 80-90% of the time, even during peak hours at very busy stops, which is utterly absurd. It has gone down to about 20-30% in the past couple of months since system-wide POP, though it should be noted the 509 got POP back in March 2015. What's more is that back when 80-90% of the CLRVs on 509 were refusing to open their rear doors, I'd always go to the front and ask the driver why they didn't open the rear doors, and about half the time they said the route was not POP, to which I asked them to take a look out the front doors to the large placard stapled to the stop pole that said it had been made POP as of whatever date; the other half the time they said it was none of my business/they didn't feel like it/some other rude reply angrily yelled at me.

For the first few months, every single time this happened I made a point of filing a complaint with the TTC, recording the exact location+car number+time of the incident. After filing a complaint for every single incident and reaching the 100 complaint milestone a few months in, I was getting irritated by the fact that at least three quarters of my complaints had an e-mail acknowledgement but no follow up despite always requesting one, and the other quarter had something like "we appreciate you taking the time to contact us, we will be sure to address this matter". Also, amazingly, even a few months after POP was rolled out I got at least one or two replies a month from TTC customer care informing me that the 509 was not a POP route--upon e-mailing them a link to the POP page on the TTC's website, I was normally not replied to again. Despite being told they would "address the matter" I noticed that it was often the same drivers on the 509, over and over again, doing this, indicating that no, nothing was being done. The entire time, including asking to speak to supervisors, I received nothing but runarounds and empty promises that okay, we apologize, this time we'll actually do something about your complaint for once.

This sort of thing used to disappoint me, but fortunately I no longer expect base competence or decency out of the TTC or its operators. The cherry on top of the cake was when, a few days ago, I showed my metropass to the driver at the front doors on a CLRV, and he acted annoyed and condescendingly informed me that he didn't need to see my pass since it was a proof of payment route. There are multiple reports to @ttchelps of the same thing--customers confused because most operators yell at you for not showing a pass at the front doors (while the rules say you don't have to, and both Brad Ross and @ttchelps have both confirmed you don't have to) while others go out of their way to inform you that you don't have to.
 
When boarding the rear door of the 501 at Yonge, with at least 5 other passengers doing the same thing, the driver yelled at us over the PA that what we were doing was "ILLEGAL" since it wasn't during rush hour. He did this at every. single. stop. until I got off west of Ossington. I think it might have been like a day or two before all door boarding became an official thing, but still...
 
When boarding the rear door of the 501 at Yonge, with at least 5 other passengers doing the same thing, the driver yelled at us over the PA that what we were doing was "ILLEGAL" since it wasn't during rush hour. He did this at every. single. stop. until I got off west of Ossington. I think it might have been like a day or two before all door boarding became an official thing, but still...

LOL. The sticker on the outside clearly said POP was in effect "7AM to 7PM, 7 days a week"
 
An improvement for presto could be to get the transit usage reports out more quickly. The CRA opened up Netfile for the 2015 tax year last Monday.

Since they only show the prior three month ride history I can't even go back and figure out for myself what my usage was and I really don't think this is something I am comfortable guessing at and amenndning later. IIRC last year it wasn't until near the end of March they finally got them out. I am in line for a refund of several hundred dollars and I would like that ASAP.
 
An improvement for presto could be to get the transit usage reports out more quickly. The CRA opened up Netfile for the 2015 tax year last Monday.

Since they only show the prior three month ride history I can't even go back and figure out for myself what my usage was and I really don't think this is something I am comfortable guessing at and amenndning later. IIRC last year it wasn't until near the end of March they finally got them out. I am in line for a refund of several hundred dollars and I would like that ASAP.
Relax, the transit usage reports are available on March 1. That's next week.
 
For the first few months, every single time this happened I made a point of filing a complaint with the TTC, recording the exact location+car number+time of the incident. After filing a complaint for every single incident and reaching the 100 complaint milestone a few months in, I was getting irritated by the fact that at least three quarters of my complaints had an e-mail acknowledgement but no follow up despite always requesting one, and the other quarter had something like "we appreciate you taking the time to contact us, we will be sure to address this matter". Also, amazingly, even a few months after POP was rolled out I got at least one or two replies a month from TTC customer care informing me that the 509 was not a POP route--upon e-mailing them a link to the POP page on the TTC's website, I was normally not replied to again. Despite being told they would "address the matter" I noticed that it was often the same drivers on the 509, over and over again, doing this, indicating that no, nothing was being done. The entire time, including asking to speak to supervisors, I received nothing but runarounds and empty promises that okay, we apologize, this time we'll actually do something about your complaint for once.
I know for a fact that certain divisions of the TTC take responding to customer complaints very seriously in cases where the customer has requested a response, for example service planning. The operating divisions are not one of those, as you're experiencing.
 
Relax, the transit usage reports are available on March 1. That's next week.

March 1 for this report is archaic. I am not relaxing and accepting the lowest common denominator and the laziest standard with which they can get away.
 
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March 1 for this report is archaic. I am not relaxing and accepting the lowest common denominator and the laziest standard with which they can get away.
Yep, I just track it myself cause they're so slow with issuing reports. I already filed my taxes and will get my refund before they even release their reports.
 
March 1 for this report is archaic. I am not relaxing and accepting the lowest common denominator and the laziest standard with which they can get away.
Good grief, it's not like I've received most of my other receipts yet either. Particularly the one for contributing to the group RRSP from January 1 to February 29, 2016.
 

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