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cplchanb said:
They couldve saved much time and money by simply having it at the front doors. Now they will have to deal with future technical issues and risks of fare evasion/lost revenue.
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I was in Vancouver last weekend. They have Compass (their Presto) readers at all doors on buses and trolleys, but I only ever saw the front doors open. Granted, I only went on a handful of rides and none were during rush hour. I imagine they save all door boarding for rush hours or when they have Transit Enforcement officers present. I did take one trolley where a TE officer was near the front ensuring that everyone paid or tapped. Anyway, perhaps the TTC could limit rear door entry to busy times.
 
nfitz said:
How is it appalling? They are implementing it faster than other agencies.

You forget that TTC didn't sign onto Presto until many years after all the other agencies that use it. TTC only signed on, only 3.5 years ago.

Metrolinx initally tried to screw TTC for hundreds of millions of dollars. You only have to look at what TTC is paying Metrolinx (over 5% of Presto) compared to what they offered smaller agencies (Ottawa is only paying 2%).

You have to wonder how bad the original financial terms were that TTC wisely rejected.
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You are looking at apples and oranges.

2% is a reasonable fee to pay for an electronic fare amounts. Similar to what merchants pay for credit cards. But this assumes that the scanners are already bought.

Ottawa paid ($25M) for the rollout. This included the cost of scanners, build-out, etc. Then they are paying 2% for each transaction. Makes sense.

Toronto refused to pay anything upfront (penny wise, pound foolish). Toronto has decided to pay an extra 3% because they didn't want the upfront costs. A lease vs purchase decision made by politicians emotionally and not looking at the numbers.
 
muller877 said:
Ottawa paid ($25M) for the rollout. This included the cost of scanners, build-out, etc. Then they are paying 2% for each transaction. Makes sense.

Toronto refused to pay anything upfront (penny wise, pound foolish). Toronto has decided to pay an extra 3% because they didn't want the upfront costs. A lease vs purchase decision made by politicians emotionally and not looking at the numbers.
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Ah, that's interesting, and explains the large discrepency. But Toronto plans to eliminate most of their current ticket/token/pass and perhaps even cash operations, and I believe they reckon that's about 6-7% right now (I say without going back to check). So the 5% saves money.

Perhaps part of Ottawa's issue, is that they haven't even discontinued books of tickets and passes. So they don't have the big cost savings to balance out the costs.
 
cplchanb said:
I think TTC is overcomplicating things with the all door presto for buses though. They couldve saved much time and money by simply having it at the front doors. Now they will have to deal with future technical issues and risks of fare evasion/lost revenue.
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My guess is they saw how much of a success all door boarding has been with streetcars they figure it will work with buses too. Most poel in Toronto seem to be pretty good about paying fares. I've been on both the new and old cars and seen poel tap their presto cards to board, most on the new ones even go and get a transfer. I've evne seen poel wave metropases and day pases around as if the driver can see it or something.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
My guess is they saw how much of a success all door boarding has been with streetcars they figure it will work with buses too.
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I've seen no indication that they will be doing all-door boarding on the buses. That would require a huge expansion of the fare inspectors.

They are putting Presto on the back door, so that people can continue to board at the rear door in fare-paid areas of subway stations. Recall that next year, you'll have to start tapping when you transfer to a bus or streetcar in the fare-paid area of a subway station.
 
nfitz said:
They are putting Presto on the back door, so that people can continue to board at the rear door in fare-paid areas of subway stations. Recall that next year, you'll have to start tapping when you transfer to a bus or streetcar in the fare-paid area of a subway station.
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They already suggest thath in pamphlets that they have at stations sometimes now that you should tap onto a streetcar when ever you board even if it is in staion.
 
TOareaFan said:
I read that somewhere but never saw anything official...is that true? Why?
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does a tweet from brad ross count as official?
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^thnx.....not sure it is worth making people tap out.....only thing they would get (that I can think of) would be destination data on people who do not transfer from subway to surface transit.
 
TOareaFan said:
^thnx.....not sure it is worth making people tap out.....only thing they would get (that I can think of) would be destination data on people who do not transfer from subway to surface transit.
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They are going to start doing fare by distance/zone. It is inevitable, as a way to boost revenue. No set date yet, but it's virtually guaranteed to happen at some point.
 
Megaton327 said:
They are going to start doing fare by distance/zone. It is inevitable, as a way to boost revenue. No set date yet, but it's virtually guaranteed to happen at some point.
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ture but if they change their fare structure it will be useful to charge poel by distance or whatever they end up doing.
 
TOareaFan said:
I read that somewhere but never saw anything official...is that true? Why?
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The early excuse is to ensure Spadina extension riders pay their premium. It's looking like York U will be included for southbound trips when transferring from a York Region bus and anything further south will pay the TTC fare.

The second reason given is improved customer statistics (they'll know where they start and end) and can better plan service around those trips.

Unofficially and speculatively, it appears the TTC is setting up for a general fare-by-distance or multiple zoned implementation as proposed by Metrolinx. They kinda have one already; a number of routes charge a second fare across certain boundaries.
 
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