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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
This is so messed up - from Ben Spurr:
AoD
AoD
drum118
Superstar
Shouldn't had happen in the first place as the system sucks and long over due to look elsewhere
Much of the TTC board meeting Thursday was taken up discussing a recent report from the city auditor general that found serious gaps in the administration of the Presto fare card system.
Auditor General Beverly Romeo-Beehler said the lack of proper oversight made it impossible to determine how much revenue the transit agency is losing from malfunctioning Presto equipment and other issues with the fare card.
In a split vote of five to two, commissioners asked TTC staff to issue a request for information to identify other potential fare-card suppliers and technology that could “benefit the TTC and its customers.”
A report is expected back by the end of next year.
The decision doesn’t mean the TTC will break its current contract with Metrolinx, the provincial agency that owns Presto. There are still seven years left on that deal, which was signed in 2012.
But board member Jim Karygiannis (Ward 22, Scarborough-Agincourt) suggested it was a way to get Metrolinx’s attention to fix the problems. He likened the TTC’s relationship with the agency to a bad marriage.
“They’re not willing to speak to us. They’re not willing to negotiate with us. They’re not even looking at us as an equal,” he said.
In a statement in response to the vote, Metrolinx Phil Verster said: “We have enjoyed an excellent working relationship with the TTC. We will continue to listen carefully to all of our transit partners.”
Much of the TTC board meeting Thursday was taken up discussing a recent report from the city auditor general that found serious gaps in the administration of the Presto fare card system.
Auditor General Beverly Romeo-Beehler said the lack of proper oversight made it impossible to determine how much revenue the transit agency is losing from malfunctioning Presto equipment and other issues with the fare card.
In a split vote of five to two, commissioners asked TTC staff to issue a request for information to identify other potential fare-card suppliers and technology that could “benefit the TTC and its customers.”
A report is expected back by the end of next year.
The decision doesn’t mean the TTC will break its current contract with Metrolinx, the provincial agency that owns Presto. There are still seven years left on that deal, which was signed in 2012.
But board member Jim Karygiannis (Ward 22, Scarborough-Agincourt) suggested it was a way to get Metrolinx’s attention to fix the problems. He likened the TTC’s relationship with the agency to a bad marriage.
“They’re not willing to speak to us. They’re not willing to negotiate with us. They’re not even looking at us as an equal,” he said.
In a statement in response to the vote, Metrolinx Phil Verster said: “We have enjoyed an excellent working relationship with the TTC. We will continue to listen carefully to all of our transit partners.”
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Metrolinx: We want to own a subway. It’ll be “easy”
Also Metrolinx: We refuse to communicate with our partners as we defraud and continually fail to meet our obligations.
I hope other GTA area transit operators undertake their own reviews, so we can ascertain just how bad this mess is.
Also Metrolinx: We refuse to communicate with our partners as we defraud and continually fail to meet our obligations.
I hope other GTA area transit operators undertake their own reviews, so we can ascertain just how bad this mess is.
Mind_the_gap
Active Member
I’m wondering, what will the TTC do when issuing transfers for cash fares on buses, once legacy fare media is eliminated? The only options I see are eliminating onboard cash fares altogether, installing TVMs, or having the driver risk getting robbed over a stack of paper Presto tickets (transfers).
Also, since the Presto tickets are RFID, they should make it possible to check your paper card’s status at TVMs.
Btw, I really like what London Transit did by using fobs instead of cards for child fares.
Also, since the Presto tickets are RFID, they should make it possible to check your paper card’s status at TVMs.
Btw, I really like what London Transit did by using fobs instead of cards for child fares.
Kyle Campbell
Active Member
I'm surprised the tickets wouldn't need some sort of activation first. Ottawa bypassed all that by using an entirely separate system for tickets and transfers based on QR codes, but the faregates seem finicky with them. As for cleaning the machines, who is responsible for them, the TTC or Metrolinx?
11th
Senior Member
They will probably continue to accept cash fare but without issuing transfers - which should only affect a small number of users.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Metrolinx is really lucky they’re an unaccountable crown corp, or they’d be sued to hell and back. They’re the bombardier of fare cards.
trtcttc
Active Member
Instead of going with proven technology like Cubic (London's Oyster, Sydney Opal, Vancouver Compass) or Vix (HK Octopus, Singapore EZ-Link), Metrolinx signed up for Accenture Fare Management Solution (AFMS), which Presto was its first real client and now they have a mess on their hands in their second project in Washington as well. Having worked at one of these multinational tech consultancies, they develop these technologies with whatever developers they have on their offshore staff, and not people that focus full time on transport fare collection technology. What happens is the product is poorly built from the ground up and everyone is just fixing bugs that won't ever be able to compensate for the poorly written code in the first place.
wtop.com
Using your smartphone as a SmarTrip is still in the cards for Metro | WTOP
Metro has yet to release a promised app that would allow riders to turn their phones into virtual SmarTrip cards.
wtop.com
thettctransitfanatic
Senior Member
It should, but there are still a suprising amount of (mostly) older folks out there who still pay by cash, and me sometimes too for nostagia's sakes.
littlewill1166
Active Member
Just saying, they also contracted some of the code (for the HHPOS) at least to freelance devs in India.Instead of going with proven technology like Cubic (London's Oyster, Sydney Opal, Vancouver Compass) or Vix (HK Octopus, Singapore EZ-Link), Metrolinx signed up for Accenture Fare Management Solution (AFMS), which Presto was its first real client and now they have a mess on their hands in their second project in Washington as well. Having worked at one of these multinational tech consultancies, they develop these technologies with whatever developers they have on their offshore staff, and not people that focus full time on transport fare collection technology. What happens is the product is poorly built from the ground up and everyone is just fixing bugs that won't ever be able to compensate for the poorly written code in the first place.
Using your smartphone as a SmarTrip is still in the cards for Metro | WTOP
Metro has yet to release a promised app that would allow riders to turn their phones into virtual SmarTrip cards.
MetroMan
Senior Member
I've also found out today that Metrolinx has been working with Apple since this past summer to integrate PRESTO into ApplePay Express Transit which would enable you to tap an iPhone or AppleWatch on a turnstile and it would register as a PRESTO fare rather than paying as a credit card. You could even add passes. Best of all, you don't have to wake up your phone or authenticate anything. It'll even work if your battery dies. This system is already used in transit fare systems like HOP and Suica.
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DSC
Superstar
If they keep keep cash fares they will need to issue some sort of receipt so that any inspector can verify that a fare was paid (and at what time). If one is doing this it may just be easier to make it a timed transfer.
11th
Senior Member
Fred.S
Active Member
In other places if you pay a cash fare on a bus/tram, you get a RFID ticket (ie the Presto Tickets). They should have that on buses, so as to keep the system consistent. Your fare will always be a Presto card (including future credit card/app) or Presto ticket, which you must have with you when on the transit system.