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299 bloor call control. said:
I'd prefer the smart card system be tendered out for operation to a private company altogether. Give them 1% of all the money exchanged on the cards in exchange for them installing the system, marketing it, operating it, and expanding it. Similar to the Octopus in Hong Kong (though they are mostly owned by the subway system there, but that's a different story). If this remains as a Transit Smart Card run by the GTTA, it will remain solely as a Transit Smart Card. If you let an outside firm do it, it will become much more than that, expanding its use, which will benefit transit. How? People who wouldn't normally have the card would have it and have money on it for other purposes, whether it be to pay for stuff at the corner store or for parking or for tolls on the DVP and Gardiner (ha! right)... and when they want to take the subway, they'll already have the card.

Otherwise, I don't see non-transit users really even bothering with Presto...
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I hear you, but I don't see why the GTTA operating the card will prevent it from being expanded into a general use card like in Hong Kong. It's all about experience and the management team, and the GTTA is hiring and looking for people with the experience.
 
299 bloor call control. said:
I'd prefer the smart card system be tendered out for operation to a private company altogether. Give them 1% of all the money exchanged on the cards in exchange for them installing the system, marketing it, operating it, and expanding it. Similar to the Octopus in Hong Kong (though they are mostly owned by the subway system there, but that's a different story). If this remains as a Transit Smart Card run by the GTTA, it will remain solely as a Transit Smart Card. If you let an outside firm do it, it will become much more than that, expanding its use, which will benefit transit. How? People who wouldn't normally have the card would have it and have money on it for other purposes, whether it be to pay for stuff at the corner store or for parking or for tolls on the DVP and Gardiner (ha! right)... and when they want to take the subway, they'll already have the card.

Otherwise, I don't see non-transit users really even bothering with Presto...
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That's a really good point. There's definitely something to be said for it. I'd imagine that a private contractor would be much more aggressive in seeking out other partners and markets.
 
Exactly. Presto being run by the GTTA really doesn't have the same motive as a private company trying to increase its revenue by maximizing its use as much as possible. There is no benefit nor motive for the GTTA expanding the mandate of Presto beyond fare payment on public transit besides more work for them that would stray beyond the Agency's objectives. Going beyond it may in fact cause opposition parties in government and anti-bureaucracy lobby groups to argue the GTTA isn't focusing on what it's supposed to do and instead creating some smart card gimmick that is a "waste of government money"
 
Exactly. That's one of the biggest problems with government services in Anglo-Saxon countries. If a government agency does too well at customer service and creativity, it gets slapped down.
 
RedRocket191 said:
From what I understand, it will work like this:

At the beginning of the month, you can buy a monthly pass if you wish and declare which system you want that pass to be valid for. All trips that aren't covered by the monthly pass drain from a separate pay-as-you-go account.

Personally, I'd like to see "virtual passes." All trips come from a pay-as-you-go account, but the system automatically gives you free trips once you've spent a certain amount of money in a certain amount of time. This way, you don't get charged for unused rides if you overestimate, and you still save money if you underestimate.

Either way, it will be better than the system we've got now.
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I agree except your last point. As is stands now, Presto will offer none of the advantages that a smart card can offer. Like automatic calculation of the best fare plan in a month. Or fare discounts when crossing between transit operators. Or off-peak discounts. Or fare zones. It's not better than what we've got now, it's just what we've got now, in smart card form.
 
It's like walking in to a store in 1998 and saying to the manager: "Your prices don't make any sense! For example, your long-sleeve shirts cost literally double your short-sleeve shirts. Or your three-piece suit costs more than if I buy the items separately. And for that matter you never have any sales or offer any discounts!"

And the manager replying: "To deal with this issue, very soon we are going to start accepting Interac for payment."
 
The roll-out information on the Presto website has been revised.

The current trial will end on September 30, 2008.

They'll start rolling out presto in Fall 2009. First up is Oakville, Burlington, and the Lakeshore West line, the Union Station for the TTC.

Everything else but the TTC should be completed in 2010.

Meanwhile in the 2009-2013 budget being presented to the TTC tomorrow it notes project has received $140 million in funding from the provincial and federal governments, however the TTC has estimated that the project would take $365 million to complete.

Not sure how you implement Lakeshore West without Lakeshore East ...
 
I often get on at Danforth on a weekend, heading west, and never get off at Union, except to change trains. When I'm on it, there's still a lot of people on the train, once the crowd clears out at Union. Presumably if these people have tapped in somewhere, they will need to tap out as well.
 
nfitz said:
I often get on at Danforth on a weekend, heading west, and never get off at Union, except to change trains. When I'm on it, there's still a lot of people on the train, once the crowd clears out at Union. Presumably if these people have tapped in somewhere, they will need to tap out as well.
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Maybe the system will be programmed to assume that someone who tapped in but never tapped out rode the line to the end (in this case Union) and charges accordingly....then they would need to have the appropriate way to pay for the trip they were continuing on with on Lakeshore E.
 
I'd assume they would simply be on the platforms, as is done in most systems. I've only heard of it being on the vehicle where there's a fixed fare, and you only have to tap in, but not tap out.
 
Shouldn't they make it so that you have to tap in to get in, and tap out to get out? Otherwise it's too easy to game the system.
 
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