Tuscani01
Senior Member
Or you know... put up a sign saying it is being tested. It's not rocket science. We do it for everything else that is being tested.
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pstogios
Senior Member
Libellous? Twice you said that.
Is the TTC taking me to court? You believe that?
Exaggerate much?
I'm just a dude on a messageboard.
When the TTC makes a claim and that claim turns out to be false, there are only two options: the claim was intentionally wrong (this is lying) or unintentionally wrong (this is incompetence).
If you are testing a product, you should know there are uncertainties and things can go wrong. To take this into account, you don't mislead the public and make announcements. The TTC could have said "Presto coming soon". They didn't. They (through Brad Ross) were specific about November as the date for Presto activation on old CLRV's.
I don't know whether that was lying or incompetence because I don't have all the information but it sure as hell means they shouldn't have said November is the date.
It's exactly like the Bombardier situation with the LFLRV's---they should never have made their many many commitments to accelerating deliveries, because there were technical reasons for why those couldn't be met.
Why criticize Bombardier's announcements (after much hesitating on your part, I might add), but not the TTC's?
Is the TTC taking me to court? You believe that?
Exaggerate much?
I'm just a dude on a messageboard.
When the TTC makes a claim and that claim turns out to be false, there are only two options: the claim was intentionally wrong (this is lying) or unintentionally wrong (this is incompetence).
If you are testing a product, you should know there are uncertainties and things can go wrong. To take this into account, you don't mislead the public and make announcements. The TTC could have said "Presto coming soon". They didn't. They (through Brad Ross) were specific about November as the date for Presto activation on old CLRV's.
I don't know whether that was lying or incompetence because I don't have all the information but it sure as hell means they shouldn't have said November is the date.
It's exactly like the Bombardier situation with the LFLRV's---they should never have made their many many commitments to accelerating deliveries, because there were technical reasons for why those couldn't be met.
Why criticize Bombardier's announcements (after much hesitating on your part, I might add), but not the TTC's?
Napoleon
Active Member
I always love the adage, "Never attribute to malice, that which you can attribute to incompetence." With Presto and the TTC, I think it's almost certainly the latter.
As a side note, lots of transit systems have trouble rolling these payment cards out as they all choose to reinvent the wheel. Despite the fact that Octopus, Oyster, Suica, and plenty of other systems have already been developed and work well, they start from scratch. They then pay Accenture or some similar firm a lot of money to get the systems working. In the end, there are inevitably delays and problems. I'm thrilled that TTC has accelerated the rollout on streetcars and look forward to them being available whenever they turn them on.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Just walked through....there are definitely two machines...one inside the paid area and one outside.
nfitz
Superstar
I've never hesitated to criticize Bombardier. You simply got your back up because a few months ago you lied and made up a story that deliveries were slowing down. And yet looking at the actual data, they were actually speeding up a bit.
That doesn't mean I was failing to criticize Bombardier (or TTC). That means I was calling out your lie. (I wouldn't actually use the word "lie" - but I'm using your definition of the word here.
Not sure why you say I don't criticize TTC. Have you seen my twitter feed? I'm surprised TTC haven't issued a restraining order on me!
ksun
Senior Member
nfitz
Superstar
Compared with an earlier deployment schedule that went well into 2017. TTC and Metrolinx reworked the schedule for the old streetcars using hardware from the now-delayed new streetcar implementation, to complete deployment during 2015.[/QUOTE]
pstogios
Senior Member
Excuse me?
I have always criticized Bombardier for their piss-poor delivery schedule, and I always was pessimistic about their ability to change this. Somehow you were always optimistic -- a valiant position and a good way to live life. I always thought this optimism was misplaced with a company that never failed to miss their own declarations.
And in this case, it turns out skepticism was the right position to take. I didn't have to lie about the delivery rate slowing down - Bombardier's incompetence to speed it up did the job.
nfitz
Superstar
How can one not be optimistic. Glass half full much better way to live than glass half empty.
Still, that doesn't justify lying that deliveries were slowing down, while they were actually accelerating.
Still, that doesn't justify lying that deliveries were slowing down, while they were actually accelerating.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Bought my card this morning on the UPE. I took über taxi this morning for first time, now my first time on the UPE. I'm feeling very urban 
pstogios
Senior Member
I don't want to derail this thread much more than one more message. I need to see the posts where I supposedly lied.
Megaton327
Senior Member
A Presto self-serve reload kiosk (SSK) has been installed in the north concourse of Queen station, labelled coming soon. I went through the South-West concourse later on and didn't notice one there, but I was in a rush and didn't look too closely.
The rollout progress with these has been spectacularly quick. Just a couple of months ago they were only at UPX Pearson/Weston/Bloor, Union York Concourse, and Union TTC; now they are in all of the Line 1 downtown U subway stations except Wellesley (which lacks presto altogether), as well as College and St. George (which are curious omissions, especially StG, as I would assume they're presto-heavy stations due to UofT/Ryerson students who commute on GO). I believe they are functional/online in all of those stations except this new addition at Queen--if the recent deployments are any indication, this one should go live in just a few days. They're also at Dundas West, Bathurst, Spadina, and Broadview on Line 2, for anyone not keeping close track.
Very happy to see these rolling out--I've sung their praises repeatedly, but again, it's a tremendously well-designed machine, especially compared to the old pilot kiosk in the Bay Concourse at Union...it's much smaller and more visually appealing, functionality-wise it is far easier to navigate/use, much faster, and the addition of tap-to-pay debit/credit is great.
So, besides this one being turned on (and hopefully some installed in the South concourses of Queen), College is the only downtown presto-enabled station lacking one. I believe presto/metrolinx/the TTC have stated the machines are currently exclusively slated for deployment in TTC stations that have presto right now (in addition to the existing UPX stations and the York Concourse). I seem to recall that once the TTC switches to presto fully, these are supposed to be installed in varying quantities in every single station--it certainly makes sense, given that all stations generally have at least one token vending machine or pass vending machine right now, and those will be torn out once tokens and passes are no longer offered; I'm sure it's not quite that easy, but I would imagine that as the pass vending machines certainly require a network connection as they process debit/credit, the power+network connections from those could be repurposed for the SSKs...and they are comparable in size and shape.
The unfortunate thing is that metrolinx has indicated that is the extent to which they plan to deploy any of these--they have said none are planned to go to Ottawa, or to any other transit system in the GTA, or in fact even to any GO stations other than Union. I think the omission of them from GO stations is hugely illogical--most GO stations, in my experience, have fairly large lines every morning filled with commuters reloading their cards; with presto being the main way to pay for travel on GO, it seems very logical to have every single GO Train station have at least 2 of the kiosks installed, and deploy them in select highly-used transit terminals namely at Square One, and potentially put a few in Ottawa (not necessarily every transitway station, that seems like overkill, but perhaps the 3 downtown stations on the Confederation LRT line).
I also recall hearing a rumour that the UPX ticket vending machines are going to be upgraded to both vend preloaded Presto cards and do Presto reloads via the small RFID reader/card holder visible on the front of those machines (which is currently unused), which would certainly be a good idea especially given the lack of an SSK at UPX Union; if they do so, given that the GO TVMs seem very similar bordering on identical, hopefully that Presto vending+reloading functionality, or at least the reloading, would come to all of those as well...that's the only logical explanation I can think of regarding why they're resisting putting the SSKs at GO stations.
The rollout progress with these has been spectacularly quick. Just a couple of months ago they were only at UPX Pearson/Weston/Bloor, Union York Concourse, and Union TTC; now they are in all of the Line 1 downtown U subway stations except Wellesley (which lacks presto altogether), as well as College and St. George (which are curious omissions, especially StG, as I would assume they're presto-heavy stations due to UofT/Ryerson students who commute on GO). I believe they are functional/online in all of those stations except this new addition at Queen--if the recent deployments are any indication, this one should go live in just a few days. They're also at Dundas West, Bathurst, Spadina, and Broadview on Line 2, for anyone not keeping close track.
Very happy to see these rolling out--I've sung their praises repeatedly, but again, it's a tremendously well-designed machine, especially compared to the old pilot kiosk in the Bay Concourse at Union...it's much smaller and more visually appealing, functionality-wise it is far easier to navigate/use, much faster, and the addition of tap-to-pay debit/credit is great.
So, besides this one being turned on (and hopefully some installed in the South concourses of Queen), College is the only downtown presto-enabled station lacking one. I believe presto/metrolinx/the TTC have stated the machines are currently exclusively slated for deployment in TTC stations that have presto right now (in addition to the existing UPX stations and the York Concourse). I seem to recall that once the TTC switches to presto fully, these are supposed to be installed in varying quantities in every single station--it certainly makes sense, given that all stations generally have at least one token vending machine or pass vending machine right now, and those will be torn out once tokens and passes are no longer offered; I'm sure it's not quite that easy, but I would imagine that as the pass vending machines certainly require a network connection as they process debit/credit, the power+network connections from those could be repurposed for the SSKs...and they are comparable in size and shape.
The unfortunate thing is that metrolinx has indicated that is the extent to which they plan to deploy any of these--they have said none are planned to go to Ottawa, or to any other transit system in the GTA, or in fact even to any GO stations other than Union. I think the omission of them from GO stations is hugely illogical--most GO stations, in my experience, have fairly large lines every morning filled with commuters reloading their cards; with presto being the main way to pay for travel on GO, it seems very logical to have every single GO Train station have at least 2 of the kiosks installed, and deploy them in select highly-used transit terminals namely at Square One, and potentially put a few in Ottawa (not necessarily every transitway station, that seems like overkill, but perhaps the 3 downtown stations on the Confederation LRT line).
I also recall hearing a rumour that the UPX ticket vending machines are going to be upgraded to both vend preloaded Presto cards and do Presto reloads via the small RFID reader/card holder visible on the front of those machines (which is currently unused), which would certainly be a good idea especially given the lack of an SSK at UPX Union; if they do so, given that the GO TVMs seem very similar bordering on identical, hopefully that Presto vending+reloading functionality, or at least the reloading, would come to all of those as well...that's the only logical explanation I can think of regarding why they're resisting putting the SSKs at GO stations.
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Voltz
Senior Member
I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but the Metropass vending machine at Queens Park Station sells Presto cards, I haven't noticed if this being done elsewere.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
Union has one too, also I think Davisville too.
Catenary
Active Member
This would make a lot of sense. Most Metro Systems I have used with TVMs have two types, one larger one that accepts cash/coins and debit/credit, and smaller ones that only accept debit/credit. Although the PRESTO AVMs could be equipped with a coin slot like the TTC SRVMs, the machines which I believe are a modified Scheidt & Bachmann FareGO ST 20 are not designed to accept cash. The UPX/GO TVMs, which are off the shelf Parkeon Astreo units, accept cash. Modifying these existing machines to allow PRESTO loads would be much better than adding PRESTO AVMs, not only because they accept cash, but also for cost reasons, as a PRESTO AVM likely costs thousands of dollars before the cost of installation.
As for other cities, it would not surprise me to hear that the lack of a PRESTO AVM that accepts cash is a sticking point, as it is the cities not PRESTO that decide where to implement new equipment. Ottawa did confirm this week on Twitter that they will be adding TVMs with PRESTO capability in 2016 as part of the faregate trial for the Trillium Line. It will be interesting to see what Ottawa does with their ticketing system, as it will be an all new system from scratch. PRESTO could supply a larger Scheidt & Bachmann machine that accepts cash, or go with the Parkeon unit that GO and UPX already use.
How much are these cards pre-loaded with? Riding the WMATA Metro was convenient because the machine that sold SmartTrip cards dispensed them for a cost of $2, with $8 pre-loaded, making it easy to stick in a $10 bill. Selling initial cards for $16 isn't terribly convenient.