[nfitz]

Any one have a list of the subway stations getting the next set of presto readers? They better include Scarborough Centre this time.

They do indeed include Scarborough Centre!

According to the presentation last August http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...Implementation_at_the_TTC_-_Status_Update.pdf the next 11 stations (by July 2015) are in no particular order:

Dundas West
Bathurst
Broadview
Scarborough Centre
Sheppard-Yonge
Davisville
Queen
King
St. Andrew
Osgoode
Museum

I want instant Presto updates.

That seems an unreasonable demand on the system architecture. And this can be virtually achieved with AutoLoad, which I've had working for about 4 years now flawlessly.

I often refill my Presto via my phone's web browser, or my iPad LTE, every paycheck.. Modern web browsers on smartphones have reliably let me do Interac e-Transfers and Interac Online payments for all major banks. I'd like to do it 5 minutes before tapping my Presto card, while waiting for a GOtrain at Union, so I don't have to stand in line at the vending machines or cashiers! I don't use autoload, or want to (at this time).

I am aware of the 4 hour updates at the Union readers. I try to remember to do it on the morning GOtrain ride, for the evening Presto tap, but sometimes I forget, or I run unexpectedly low due to weekend rides, or TTC taps, or I refilled using an amount that runs out between paychecks, etc.[/QUOTE]

 

[Catenary]

This is probably possible, yes. But for simplicity (and expense), always-connected fixed readers are easier to make realtime first.

It really should be possible. I can instantly refill a Presto Card at a cashier with cash.
But I can't tell the cashier to tap the card for me to refill my online balance, online refill is not instant refill even when tapping at a cashier after I pay online.

As I've said again, this should be addressed! When I've spent a budget with a $200 Presto refill for two weeks of rides (it costs $10 per ride for me), and the online refill is in lala land for several hours. And no way to speed up the online refill of a used-up Presto card. Forcing me to buy a ticket at the GO fare vending machine in a hurry, and often my rides in prestocard.ca no longer seems to qualify for a tax deduction anymore because it doesn't fill out a whole month's of rides anymore. (I'll have to check if keeping tickets and adding them in, makes it re-qualify for a tax deduction, if the GO tickets bump the number of rides to 20 roundtrips -- I'm sure an accountant would let that fly). Otherwise, that's a hundred dollars of tax deduction lost there, because an online refill took too long (happened once already for me)... one ride short of qualifying for a tax deducation! And yes, I could use autofill, but I run a tighter budget due to the new homeownership, so I avoid auto-payments that can't be scheduled on predictable dates. So no Presto autofill for me. Just have to remember to refill before I go too close to empty. Or do a single ride or two cash refill at the cashier instead next time, even if the cashier lineup is long!

If you ask the cashier for a balance update, they will tap your card and this will process any pending online loads. I had to do thins to get my card registered as I didn't have any plans to use it in the 30 days after I registered online. Balance checkers do the same.

The way PRESTO currently works, online load lists are generated every 4 hours and pushed out to connected devices as quickly as possible. For fixed readers this is nearly instant, for OC Transpo buses this is nearly instant, for other buses it's overnight in the garage. If you happen to do an online load right before the list is generated you're in luck for an almost instant load at a fixed reader, if you load online just after the list is generated, you'll be waiting almost 4 hours for the load to appear on the machine.

 

[rbt]

I heard that Ottawa was using cellular technology onboard their buses to make their load time within 4 hours. Is it not possible to use this same technology to make updates very close to real time? (not an expert so I'm not sure)

A guaranteed near-real-time is impossible simply because vehicles go many places where mobile network service isn't available; and you don't really want to rely on rogers or bell having 100% reliability across their entire Toronto network. Both frequently take down parts of their services overnight for reorganization but TTC service is 24/7. That said, you could probably guarantee 2 hours comfortably, with normal times being closer to 5 minutes.

TTC buses communicate with the control center roughly every 30 seconds to report their current position. I'm hoping this is setup as an independent network within the bus to allow PRESTO boxes to plug into it without requiring it's own cellular plan.

 

[Electrify]

If you ask the cashier for a balance update, they will tap your card and this will process any pending online loads. I had to do thins to get my card registered as I didn't have any plans to use it in the 30 days after I registered online. Balance checkers do the same.

The way PRESTO currently works, online load lists are generated every 4 hours and pushed out to connected devices as quickly as possible. For fixed readers this is nearly instant, for OC Transpo buses this is nearly instant, for other buses it's overnight in the garage. If you happen to do an online load right before the list is generated you're in luck for an almost instant load at a fixed reader, if you load online just after the list is generated, you'll be waiting almost 4 hours for the load to appear on the machine.

About a year ago I think about 18+ hours had passed since I loaded, and it still wasn't showing up. I went into a convenience store which had Presto services to do a balance check on my card, and it STILL wasn't there! I was about to say screw it and snatch a free ride on the Viva (see my previous post in the last page) as my next ride would put me into a negative balance, but decided to do one last balance check on the TVM by the stop, and it was there.

 

[Jonny5]

The latest upgrade to PRESTO has eliminated the annoying card lockout for missed taps. The system now automatically determines if you miss tapping off and debits the fare from your e-purse the next time you tap on.

https://www.prestocard.ca/en-US/Pages/ContentPages/FAQFares.aspx#Fares15

I found this out seeing it in my transaction log for last week as an entry labelled "Auto Adjustment - Missed Tap Off". Though for me it was really a "Missed Tap On" as based on the log I must have forgotten or flubbed the tap on at Union as when I arrived at my home station and tapped it triggered the start of a new trip instead of ending one. The next day it docked the $5.75 fare in addition to my regular fare.

 

[salsa]

The latest upgrade to PRESTO has eliminated the annoying card lockout for missed taps. The system now automatically determines if you miss tapping off and debits the fare from your e-purse the next time you tap on.

https://www.prestocard.ca/en-US/Pages/ContentPages/FAQFares.aspx#Fares15

I found this out seeing it in my transaction log for last week as an entry labelled "Auto Adjustment - Missed Tap Off". Though for me it was really a "Missed Tap On" as based on the log I must have forgotten or flubbed the tap on at Union as when I arrived at my home station and tapped it triggered the start of a new trip instead of ending one. The next day it docked the $5.75 fare in addition to my regular fare.

I think there should be a different tone for when you tap off vs tap on, to avoid this kind of confusion.

 

[nfitz]

The latest upgrade to PRESTO has eliminated the annoying card lockout for missed taps. The system now automatically determines if you miss tapping off and debits the fare from your e-purse the next time you tap on.

It was fixed in an upgrade some time ago. Mid-2013?

 

[Jonny5]

I think there should be a different tone for when you tap off vs tap on, to avoid this kind of confusion.

That would certainly help.

Another issue is the delay on the display after tapping on and confusion about if you can tap while it still hows data.

I usually board via the York Street Teamway where coming in from the north there are just two machines, both on the same side of the hallway, about 4 metres apart. Naturally just after 5:00PM a queue starts to form up to use these two machines, especially the first one. Most people are in a rush and tap on and leave right away, but the display stays on for about 1.5 seconds, and if you then put your card up during that time it can be unclear if you actually tapped on or not. Sometimes I have double checked and found I did not actually tap on, the lights were just from the prior person. I assume this time that the machine didn't pick up my card, just looked like it did.

When you have at the peak about 150 people arriving per minute to go to track 5, it's pretty dumb to have just two machines to serve them. There is another machine further in but it is by the timetable screen and people are always standing around blocking the way there.

It'll be great when the York East Teamway finally opens and maybe takes some pressure off, but there are a lot of people streaming in right after 5:00PM from the west along Station Street and they certainly won't be going anywhere else.

It also doesn't help how many idiots there are who walk up to the machine and only then start rummaging through their bags and pockets to find their card.

 

[Jonny5]

It was fixed in an upgrade some time ago. Mid-2013?

I definitely had a lockout from not tapping off in the fall of last year.

 

[NotMathematical]

Any update on the TTC Rollout?

 

[nfitz]

I definitely had a lockout from not tapping off in the fall of last year.

Looking through Presto's Facebook feed, this upgrade took place in September 2012 - https://www.facebook.com/PRESTOcard/posts/421485184565707

Someone borrowed my card in June 2013 and forgot to tap off, and I was indeed charged the full fare to the end of the line. No lockout.

Perhaps there was another issue? Funds shortage?

 

[Jonny5]

Looking through Presto's Facebook feed, this upgrade took place in September 2012 - https://www.facebook.com/PRESTOcard/posts/421485184565707

Someone borrowed my card in June 2013 and forgot to tap off, and I was indeed charged the full fare to the end of the line. No lockout.

Perhaps there was another issue? Funds shortage?

I guess it must have been. I was an infrequent user at the time, so I only had on what I would need for a one off trip a month. Perhaps it wasn't enough for the regular tap-on price plus the auto-adjustment fare which dropped it to a negative.

 

[P23]

A guaranteed near-real-time is impossible simply because vehicles go many places where mobile network service isn't available; and you don't really want to rely on rogers or bell having 100% reliability across their entire Toronto network. Both frequently take down parts of their services overnight for reorganization but TTC service is 24/7. That said, you could probably guarantee 2 hours comfortably, with normal times being closer to 5 minutes.

TTC buses communicate with the control center roughly every 30 seconds to report their current position. I'm hoping this is setup as an independent network within the bus to allow PRESTO boxes to plug into it without requiring it's own cellular plan.

Really? You're trying to tell us that there are parts of Toronto that have no cell service, even if it's infrequent? I find that incredibly hard to believe since the city is covered in cell towers with overlapping service. Not to mention the issues it would cause if there was no service for emergency calls.

 

[wopchop]

Really? You're trying to tell us that there are parts of Toronto that have no cell service, even if it's infrequent? I find that incredibly hard to believe since the city is covered in cell towers with overlapping service. Not to mention the issues it would cause if there was no service for emergency calls.

Any vehicle that goes into a garage or underground (ie. St. Clair West Station) has potential to lose service.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Really? You're trying to tell us that there are parts of Toronto that have no cell service, even if it's infrequent? I find that incredibly hard to believe since the city is covered in cell towers with overlapping service. Not to mention the issues it would cause if there was no service for emergency calls.

Electrical failures, maintenance, software glitches, flooding, lightning strikes, cell towers damage, etc.