salsa
Senior Member
And what about all the neighbourhoods that have a lot of development without any subway station nearby?
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- Thread starter Le Gique
- Start date
And what about all the neighbourhoods that have a lot of development without any subway station nearby?
Steve X
Senior Member
I'm afraid you forgot (in 2012) the 52, 58 and 59 all run on Lawrence. After the 52 and 58 merged, it's 43.9k.
Sheppard East with the 85 (29k) and 190 (10k) only makes 39k making the Lawrence West corridor busier.
See for your self.
https://www.ttc.ca/PDF/Transit_Planning/Ridership_and_service_stats_2014.pdf
I expect ridership will drop by 10k once the Crosstown opens. Still, with growth in a decade, Lawrence west will still have close to 40k riders and does deserve some sort of bus jump lanes. I would argue Bathrust, Dufferin and Jane could use some but the roadway is narrower than Lawrence. Finch East is another corridor that needs bus jump lanes.
11th
Senior Member
Shouldn't we be comparing between line 4's 47.7k and the 43.9k from Lawrence West if we are comparing corridors? (and that's assuming all 10k from 190 is included in the line 4 numbers, which we know is probably untrue)
I do however agree Lawrence West needs some sort of solution.
Steve X
Senior Member
There's no real point of comparing something that's already built. We can't unbuild it. Line 4 spans 6km while the 52 Lawrence West spans over 20km. It wouldn't be a fair comparison at all.
I comparing the Lawrence West to Sheppard because they are routes with similar route length and ridership but people want a subway extension on a corridor with lower ridership while other busier corridors don't have any improvements. Instead of trying to convert the longer Sheppard LRT to a shorter Sheppard subway extension, that money would be better spent adding bus lanes to Lawrence West and Finch East benefiting a lot more people.
OneCity
Senior Member
Kennedy has an old height restriction still in place. Like anywhere where there is a plan to develop and high rise towers allowed Developers will line up in droves to build on the surrounding swath of plaza's. Once this restriction is lifted, the area will never look the same.
Kennedy will also be a very attractive place to live for commuters in the next 10 -15 years. Direct subway to downtown, 5 min subway to SCC, Eglinton crosstown LRT. Kinda sad they hid the Kennedy station off the main road. Another Scarborough transit blunder in all its glory. Hope they partner with a developer to help change that one day.
TBH you are picking out the exceptions to the rule. Subways stops are by far THE number one real estate marketing tool in the City and when the City gives the green light to build to the moon the developers will go ape.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Nope - what I am trying to point out is that mode is not necessarily the determinant it was made out to be. And as if you haven't realized, old height restrictions never limited developers. Hell even land use hasn't limited them.
AoD
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Kennedy should had that height restriction eliminated years ago. But, you know, they're still trying to get that Scarborough Centre thing to work out. Can't have a more attractive location in Scarborough, with three or four transit lines covering, providing competition for the haphazardly designed and located Scarborough Centre.
I wager that we'd see Eglinton Avenue East lines with mid to high rise condos and a nice cluster of mid or high rise offices at Kennedy Station, if restrictions were eased.
OneCity
Senior Member
SCC has developed well given the crappy transit it has been blessed with and the unfortunate image its been labelled with. Obviously no one wants to build until the transit sorts its self out. Once the subway is finalized and moves forward the proposals will certainly start rolling in. There is no reason not they cant both grow rapidly in tandem once the subway comes to SCC. With the transit around Kennedy they have to lift the restriction. Its a gold mine
And there is nothing wrong with the location of SCC other than its not by a lake. The 401 is close by and once its connect to the Citys main transit infrastructure it will be quite attractive to commuters. Something its currently not
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salsa
Senior Member
I'm surprised you haven't blamed the downtown media for that one too.
I don't disagree about its unfortunate location (aside that it's right next to the GO line), but that's hindsight. The decision was made at the time that Kennedy was going to be a transportation hub, not a development hub. Public realm and foot traffic to the station was an afterthought compared to cramming a bunch of parking lots where land was conveniently available, and where the hydro corridor wasn't in the way of construction. Just build a bunch of access roads and a drop-off area, put in a large bus terminal and that was considered good enough to serve it's transportation purpose.
Perhaps you could elaborate, but I don't see how a developer could "change that" without relocating the entire station including the subway platform. It is what it is. I hope efforts will be make to beautify the station's surroundings and make it more pedestrian friendly as much as possible. Maybe the Crosstown will help make that happen.
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Steve X
Senior Member
Kennedy Station is getting a new entrance closer to Kennedy/Eglinton except the Line 2 platform isn't moving anywhere. It would make the station more accessible and pedestrian friendly but you still have to walk to the platform to get on the train.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The Line 1 extension into Vaughan will have a "large" 1,850 vehicle parking lot at Pioneer Village Subway Station. At 1.3 people per vehicle, that's enough for 2,405 passengers, who might take the Line 1 extension. At a crush load at 1,458 per subway train, that's enough "extra" passengers for two (2) trains.
If they put in a similar parking lot at SCC, it would be very attractive for those who take the 401 to the Scarborough Town Centre Station or vicinity. Enough for a whole two trains.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I read somewhere that SCC is about to go 10 years without any project completions. I don't consider that to be developing well.
Wrong! There's little money to be made to build here so the developers are avoiding it. Construction costs are similar here to anywhere else in Toronto but the amount they can charge purchasers is less than they can in areas of Toronto that are booming. Subway won't change that. Don't expect much in growth here for a long time.
salsa
Senior Member
Even if it does start to develop, how much of that will include office buildings? One of the pro-subway arguments that is used to justify is that the subway will attract jobs to STC. But it should have been pretty obvious by now that the suburban Toronto office market is pretty uncompetitive to the 905, when even the most prime locations have struggled or failed to attract any commercial development.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Not only 416 - pretty much all the centres identified in the plans saw little to no new office development (none in Islington/Kipling; none in NYCC, none in SCC, none in Y+E and Y+St. Clair; none in MCC) and it is questionable as to whether the new centres (VMC, Markham) will see sustained office development after the initial burst of activity (which the 416 centres and MCC all had to start off).
AoD