[44 North]

Actually this is not true whatsoever. The LRT plan introduced an additional transfer for commuters going to the short subway stub. Such a poor design concept to connect Central Scarborough. Sorry but the benefits of bus to subway is greater then bus to LRT to stubway

And calling people against these extra transfers before the Centre Ideological, really? I think we can hand that honor to the blanket LRT crowd here now as a small number still can't let go of the piss poor designs a decade later. This line is died on it's own merit and the over the top fight to force the Central Scarboroughs transfer LRT lines by outside political interests has only wasted everyone time and money.

So thankful there can no longer be interference on these subway lines that should have been designed and built years ago and we now move on with a fully supportable and connected BRT/LRT and subway network plan

Can you please stop severely editing your comments. This isn't adding a word or fixing punctuation. Without fail you turn a discussion about transit into another sick, political, polluted debate. It's deranged, and annoying. Twenty mins ago your comment was completely different.

 

[Voltz]

Actually this is not true whatsoever. The LRT plan actually introduced an additional transfer for commuters going to the short subway stub and is one of the most ridiculous designs concepts to connect Central Scarborough. Bus to subway does not equate to Bus to LRT to stubway

No, they still have to transfer to a bus on Sheppard to get to the subway, none of the North South routes east of Pharmacy run west to Don Mills station, and the routes that do could still have done so,

The plan died because a crack head lied to everyone and said he would build a subway for free in four years, and a bunch of other garbage.

 

[Undead]

Everyone when this thread subway vs. LRT denate pings:

 

[ARG1]

No, they still have to transfer to a bus on Sheppard to get to the subway, none of the North South routes east of Pharmacy run west to Don Mills station, and the routes that do could still have done so,

The plan died because a crack head lied to everyone and said he would build a subway for free in four years, and a bunch of other garbage.

And how would replacing it with an LRT solve that? Yes the current set up isn't much better, but you're suggesting spending billions of dollars that still requires you to take a pointless Linear Transfer, just because you want to cheap out for a vastly inferior transit mode.

 

[kamira51]

Just posting my opinion.

How would I fix Line 4?
1. Convert the line from heavy rail to light metro.
2. Extend it east to STC
3. Maybe extend it to Sheppard West? It would be kinda dumb if line 6 was going to be extended west to Finch Station, let me know what you think of that.

 

[rbt]

The whole crosstown line will have to contend with the frequency of human drivers outside the tunnels in addition to the choice of farside platforms. Until that part of grade-separated, the TTC will not be able to control the trains in a way that would allow 90s headways.

TTC doesn't need to provide the same frequency of service across the entire line; particularly if ridership is significantly higher in one section than others.

 

[micheal_can]

Just posting my opinion.

How would I fix Line 4?
1. Convert the line from heavy rail to light metro.
2. Extend it east to STC
3. Maybe extend it to Sheppard West? It would be kinda dumb if line 6 was going to be extended west to Finch Station, let me know what you think of that.

Where would the maintenance facility be built?

 

[NoahB]

TTC doesn't need to provide the same frequency of service across the entire line; particularly if ridership is significantly higher in one section than others.

Don't disagree, but that is not what we are talking about.

We were discussing the capacity of the core section and how it cant be tightly controlled like a completely grade-separated line because some of the trains entering the tunnel would arrive at erratic intervals because of signals and traffic. So the core section of the Crosstown cannot reach Canada Line-like frequency unless they separate the tunnelled and outdoor sections as two lines at Laird or grade-separated the street running segment.

Also will train drivers be controlling doors like on line 1? if so that also will make it more difficult.

 

[OneCity]

No, they still have to transfer to a bus on Sheppard to get to the subway, none of the North South routes east of Pharmacy run west to Don Mills station, and the routes that do could still have done so,

The plan died because a crack head lied to everyone and said he would build a subway for free in four years, and a bunch of other garbage.

Again. There would have been 2 transfers with the LRT plan for many to reach the subway instead of 1.

All Politicians lie. Even the well spoken, well dressed ones spewing their transfer LRT 'evidence based' propaganda. 99% of Scarborough politicians of all stripes want to see a plan to connect Scarborough Centre. So if you really think this is just about the Ford(s) lies you've been grossly mislead and yes lied too. Although Rob even agreed to connect the Centre seamless with LRT with RT replacement and Doug was able to fix the next City design mess by adding stops back into the Line2 extension so we could move on and pulled Sheppard out of this Citys divisive arm. So it's clear there efforts were on brand with the base of the politics they ran on. Sheppard will now see alot more attention to detail with the outside corner cutting opposition removed from the equation no matter what Party is in power Provincially.

 

[rbt]

Don't disagree, but that is not what we are talking about.

We were discussing the capacity of the core section and how it cant be tightly controlled like a completely grade-separated line because some of the trains entering the tunnel would arrive at erratic intervals because of signals and traffic. So the core section of the Crosstown cannot reach Canada Line-like frequency unless they separate the tunnelled and outdoor sections as two lines at Laird or grade-separated the street running segment.

I understand your point; but many branching high-frequency services demonstrate that is is both possible and practical for daily service.

Trains entering via the tunnel can wait for 60 seconds without onerous cost to the passengers; they don't need a perfect trip. Trains turning back at the tunnel entrance may be delayed at zero cost (until the queue gets full). With those statements as guidance, TTC can comfortably run irregular 5 minute frequencies outside the tunnel and tightly maintained 60 second frequencies inside the tunnel.

Issues with branching services happen when you make foolish guarantees like zero seconds waiting at merge points (rather than 60 seconds or less waiting).

Single line, 2 separate interleaved branches (which happen to fully overlap in the middle). The same could be done on Sheppard for an LRT conversion + street-median extension.

 

[Voltz]

And how would replacing it with an LRT solve that? Yes the current set up isn't much better, but you're suggesting spending billions of dollars that still requires you to take a pointless Linear Transfer, just because you want to cheap out for a vastly inferior transit mode.

Not billions, the cost was one billion, and not pointless, service was to be much better than buses, see more below.

again. There would have been 2 transfers with the LRT plan for many to reach the subway instead of 1.

They are not getting a subway extension either way for a very long time, it's either two transfers with slow and crowded busses that have insufficient capacity with a long transfer, or an LRT on Sheppard that does not have those issues.

 

[kamira51]

Where would the maintenance facility be built?

Oh dear, i completely forgot about that and the OL line is stopping at Eglinton.

My mistake.

 

[micheal_can]

Oh dear, i completely forgot about that and the OL line is stopping at Eglinton.

My mistake.

Right now the Sheppard line is being served by the Wilson Yard. While it might be great to suggest other types of rolling stock, there needs to be a location to store and service them. This is why leaving it as is and just extending it is the easier option. If there isn't the demand for an expansion, then don't do one.

 

[NoahB]

I understand your point; but many branching high-frequency services demonstrate that is is both possible and practical for daily service.

Trains entering via the tunnel can wait for 60 seconds without onerous cost to the passengers; they don't need a perfect trip. Trains turning back at the tunnel entrance may be delayed at zero cost (until the queue gets full). With those statements as guidance, TTC can comfortably run irregular 5 minute frequencies outside the tunnel and tightly maintained 60 second frequencies inside the tunnel.

Issues with branching services happen when you make foolish guarantees like zero seconds waiting at merge points (rather than 60 seconds or less waiting).

Single line, 2 separate interleaved branches (which happen to fully overlap in the middle). The same could be done on Sheppard for an LRT conversion + street-median extension.

I feel you are missing my point though. But my whole argument is this branching will not be as efficient as the Canada Line's branching because one branch is street-running. You cant run trains every minute and a half or two minutes when one train is late 1 minute, the one behind it is ahead of schedule by 2 minutes, the one after it it is late 5 minutes, and so on. Trains will be leaving the tunnel at regular intervals because of automation. And stopping trains at the turn back station will not be enough to offset the missing trains coming from the east that arrive at unpredictable timeslots. This will all decrease the frequency, therefore the capacity, of the 90m trains compared to the Canada Line. (which is fine for Eglinton's ridership)

And don't get me starting on the 'time to clear (leave) the station' for a long train vs a short train, which affects the frequency. (shorter trains can leave a platform faster than a long train as it has less distance clear. See the Lille Metro's tiny VAL tarins, which arrive every 66 seconds in rush hour.)

But maybe I'm wrong. I don't have enough data to make a good guess...

 

[Rainforest]

Where would the maintenance facility be built?

If it comes to that, there is still quite a bit of unused land near the Sheppard West / former Downsview station.