[Rainforest]

Just posting my opinion.

How would I fix Line 4?
1. Convert the line from heavy rail to light metro.
2. Extend it east to STC
3. Maybe extend it to Sheppard West? It would be kinda dumb if line 6 was going to be extended west to Finch Station, let me know what you think of that.

1. I agree, that's probably a better deal than extending it as the present-day heavy rail subway. A more agile option will permit going further east and west, and thus improve the ridership.

2. Not sure if it should connect to Line 2 at STC, or at the Sheppard & McCowan subway terminus. Both options have their pros and cons.

3. Extending to Sheppard West makes sense, and maybe even further west. I would consider flipping from Sheppard West to Wilson at some point, as it will be much easier to organize the feeder services to the terminus on Wilson; the buses could come from Weston Rd North, Albion Rd, and the western 401 / 409.

I would want to see Line 6 coming to Finch & Yonge, notwithstanding the Sheppard line's western extension. Line 6 is of a more local nature, but to avoid unnecessary transfers, the riders should have a direct access to Yonge, rather than having to switch to a bus at Keele, or navigate via Lines 1 and 4.

 

[micheal_can]

If it comes to that, there is still quite a bit of unused land near the Sheppard West / former Downsview station.

That sounds like it would be better utilized for TOD.

 

[north-of-anything]

There are quite a few places that would work as an MSF or layover yard for a Sheppard line: the Consumers industrial park, the Sheppard-Kennedy-401-Midland block, the Kennedy-401-Brimley-Ellesmere block assuming a STC routing, Milner Avenue, the Conlins land that's already been earmarked for SELRT...

If you extend west of Yonge that opens up not only the vacant plots surrounding the Downsview lands, but also the Chesswood-Steeprock industrial park and maybe even Sheppard/Arrow next to the CP tracks.

The issue with using the current rolling stock is that capacity for Line 1 trains is already very strained, or else they wouldn't be building a new yard in Richmond Hill, so either way another yard will be necessary to extend Sheppard! Might as well convert the stubway to a slightly lower capacity line and eliminate the need for a Don Mills transfer.

 

[Haydenpoon]

There are quite a few places that would work as an MSF or layover yard for a Sheppard line: the Consumers industrial park, the Sheppard-Kennedy-401-Midland block, the Kennedy-401-Brimley-Ellesmere block assuming a STC routing, Milner Avenue, the Conlins land that's already been earmarked for SELRT...

If you extend west of Yonge that opens up not only the vacant plots surrounding the Downsview lands, but also the Chesswood-Steeprock industrial park and maybe even Sheppard/Arrow next to the CP tracks.

The issue with using the current rolling stock is that capacity for Line 1 trains is already very strained, or else they wouldn't be building a new yard in Richmond Hill, so either way another yard will be necessary to extend Sheppard! Might as well convert the stubway to a slightly lower capacity line and eliminate the need for a Don Mills transfer.

One of the benefits of using the existing TTC trains on Sheppard is that when Line 4 is extended west to Sheppard West it can connect to Wilson yard providing another way to dispatch trains to the Yonge Line.

 

[micheal_can]

One of the benefits of using the existing TTC trains on Sheppard is that when Line 4 is extended west to Sheppard West it can connect to Wilson yard providing another way to dispatch trains to the Yonge Line.

Could yards like Wilson be built upwards? In other words, a multi level parking garage like structure.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Could yards like Wilson be built upwards? In other words, a multi level parking garage like structure.

That's a crap ton of structural work for storing trains. You're better off just procuring more land.

 

[afransen]

Maybe you could accommodate a different use above to better utilize the space. Just talking in general for MSFs.

 

[micheal_can]

That's a crap ton of structural work for storing trains. You're better off just procuring more land.

II know there is a lot of structural work involved. In the world of densifying the city, having yards that are multi level for storage of the cars makes sense.

 

[44 North]

They are not getting a subway extension either way for a very long time, it's either two transfers with slow and crowded busses that have insufficient capacity with a long transfer, or an LRT on Sheppard that does not have those issues.

Pretty much. But on the bright side at least we have a concept for a Line 4 extension, cooked up behind closed doors, which bypasses Scarb Ctr, for sometime in 2040. Maybe.

 

[turini2]

Could yards like Wilson be built upwards? In other words, a multi level parking garage like structure.

Yes, Singapore do this all the time - the largest one currently is the "East Coast Integrated Depot" The Downtown Line Depot is located underground, followed by the Thomson-East Coast Line Depot at-grade, and the East West Line Depot elevated on the level above.

Realistically, the cost of doing this means that it's unlikely to happen to Wilson, given Toronto has lots of space when compared to Singapore/Hong Kong etc. The only real possibility of something like this is a bus garage being built atop the Line 2 Western yard.

Only recently are very dense cities like Paris + London investigating/building multiple storey bus garages due to lack of space - Toronto still has a relatively large amount of industrial land that can be used to build single storey bus garages.

 

[micheal_can]

Yes, Singapore do this all the time - the largest one currently is the "East Coast Integrated Depot" The Downtown Line Depot is located underground, followed by the Thomson-East Coast Line Depot at-grade, and the East West Line Depot elevated on the level above.

Realistically, the cost of doing this means that it's unlikely to happen to Wilson, given Toronto has lots of space when compared to Singapore/Hong Kong etc. The only real possibility of something like this is a bus garage being built atop the Line 2 Western yard.

Only recently are very dense cities like Paris + London investigating/building multiple storey bus garages due to lack of space - Toronto still has a relatively large amount of industrial land that can be used to build single storey bus garages.

View attachment 287461

It would be nice if that industrial area was developed for private enterprises.

 

[Rainforest]

That sounds like it would be better utilized for TOD.

If it can be the yard at the ground level, TOD on top of it, then for sure.

But if it's either one or the other, then the transit utility should be given a priority. The transit utility is much more location-sensitive than any condos or office buildings.

Lots of pockets for TOD are still available, including next to the existing subway stations. While a transit yard only can be placed where it connects to the transit line.

 

[micheal_can]

If it can be the yard at the ground level, TOD on top of it, then for sure.

But if it's either one or the other, then the transit utility should be given a priority. The transit utility is much more location-sensitive than any condos or office buildings.

Lots of pockets for TOD are still available, including next to the existing subway stations. While a transit yard only can be placed where it connects to the transit line.

Let's say they rebuilt Wilson Yard so that it was 2 stories high. That would mean the yard might be able to take up about half the existing footprint. That would allow more space to be occupied by new taxpaying things.

 

[W. K. Lis]

One of the benefits of using the existing TTC trains on Sheppard is that when Line 4 is extended west to Sheppard West it can connect to Wilson yard providing another way to dispatch trains to the Yonge Line.

From link.

The Wilson "yard" already has two+ different fleets of public transit vehicles. The Toronto Rocket subway cars, buses, wheel-trans buses, with possible electric buses in the future make up the fleet coming out of the current Wilson yard.

Should the Downsview Airport (CYZD) lands be sold, there would be space to add a fleet of the new rapid transit vehicles.

 

[nfitz]

While I'm not a fan of how small they made the canada line trains, one must consider the fact that:
1. The crosstown is currently being built with 60 m trains.
2. Those trains are far narrower and have choke points
3. West of Laird, frequencies will only be around 3 minutes.

The crosstown is being built for 90-metre trains. The plan, day 1, is to operate only 60-metre trains, there is no constraint against running 90-metre trains - unlike Vancouver, where they've talked about extending from 40-metre to 60-metre trains, but this would require significant excavation at every station, as unlike Sheppard, they didn't rough-in the extra platform.

The crosstown trains are somewhat narrower, but they are still wider than Line 3, the other Skytrain vehicles, and Montreal metro cars, TTC streetcars, and most London tube stock.

Frequencies will initially be 3 minutes based on capacity. Which is better than the 7-minute waits at peak at the Vancouver Airport for trains - also based on capacity. Like the Crosstown, the Canada Line isn't currently operating at capacity, and would have to get more vehicles to do so.