[Rainforest]

The city needs to make investments that are rational and not based on who can wrangle up the loudest mob. It's really just relative few who are staunchly against LRT, most of them have misconceptions about what is really happening and most will get over it once construction is well under way.

I am not so sure that only a few residents are staunchly against LRT. Only a few showed up at the meeting, but usually such meetings give a reasonably accurate representation of the sentiments that prevail in the larger community. If I heard of a group of local LRT proponents as large and equally determined, then the conclusion would be different; but that's not the case.

Then, the majority might be wrong at times; but it is unwise to ignore that majority in a democratic system. After all, they are capable of electing another moron (or even re-electing the same one) to a certain public post, and ruining transit projects even if the latter make sense from the technical standpoint.

One has to be somewhat flexible to get the stuff done; if the residents don't want LRT but the planners don't feel the subway is justified, why not built another transit line instead of Sheppard East LRT? Or, use the money to extend the already planned lines: Eglinton towards the airport, Finch to Yonge, SLRT to Malvern Centre?

 

[BurlOak]

Actually, the Spadina extension was a hot topic 2-3 years ago. By now, the project is in the advanced state of construction, cannot be cancelled, and even if it could, the sunk costs cannot be recovered. There is no point bashing it, whether it was the right choice or not.

I do not see why it can not be cancelled.

We built one-and-a-half gas fired power plants (Mississauga and Oakville) and cancelled them at a reported cost of $2B. If we cancel the Spadina extension now we may save a couple of 100 million dollars. Loosing $2B+ in the sunk costs is obviously not that big of a concern.

 

[nfitz]

I am not so sure that only a few residents are staunchly against LRT. Only a few showed up at the meeting, but usually such meetings give a reasonably accurate representation of the sentiments that prevail in the larger community.

Is it though? I've heard descriptions of the demographics of the meeting as old white guys. And that's NOT the demographics I see using transit on Sheppard.

It doesn't seem to be transit users that are objecting to surface LRT. This looks like car-driving NIMBYs. The same demographic that seemed to be against St. Clair.

This seems more old man shouting at cloud than anything serious. I'm sure they'd also object when they start digging up the street to build a subway. Look at some of the posts we get here with people complaining that the streets are rough to drive on during the middle of a reconstruction ...

 

[Rainforest]

Is it though? I've heard descriptions of the demographics of the meeting as old white guys. And that's NOT the demographics I see using transit on Sheppard.

That's possible. However: a) lack of similarly vocal support for the LRT from those potential users is somewhat telling; b) Same demographics of potential LRT users can be found along several other major arterials, where an LRT proposal would be much less controversial, and whose bus routes are busier than Sheppard East.

It doesn't seem to be transit users that are objecting to surface LRT. This looks like car-driving NIMBYs. The same demographic that seemed to be against St. Clair.

I doubt that; why would car-driving NIMBYs even bother to show up at the Sheppard transit meeting, when they have Hwy 401 just 600 - 1200 m south of that street.

St Clair situation was quite different: it was the widest road in the area with 3 lanes each way before the ROW was installed (Bloor is 2 lanes, Eglinton 2-3, Dupont and Davenport 1-2); and there was never any prospect of subway on St Clair, due to the proximity to Bloor.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Rainforest:

Remember who organized this event.

AoD

 

[Rainforest]

Rainforest:

Remember who organized this event.

AoD

Yes; but if the public is not interested, nobody will show up.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well, just like St. Clair - the question is interested in what - better transit for current users, or some other motive that has nothing to do with transit directly but masquerading as such. One may want subways, but if they aren't willing to pay for it (which is clear when that pesky issue of funding sources was raised at the event) - are you telling me that actual transit users won't take the next best thing out of spite? People who actually use transit (not just talk about it) will go for any improvement available. 5 minutes shaved is 5 minutes saved.

AoD

 

[Palma]

Ansem:



Sorry, we've denounced that extension years ago - you are free to dig back into the forum and look those posts up yourself. Just in case you haven't noticed, that train has already left the station for that project with no turning back.

AoD

I keep hoping they have made a mistake and find the tracks will not support the subway train (somehow in my wild imagination). Then they can turn it into an LRT, ya I know more money but since the provincial govt for political reason gave the go ahead with funding they can pay the additional money

 

[Palma]

St Clair situation was quite different: and there was never any prospect of subway on St Clair, due to the proximity to Bloor.

Someone should point that out to Mamo and the residents up at Finch with that Sheppard subway just south of there

 

[Solid Snake]

Someone should point that out to Mamo and the residents up at Finch with that Sheppard subway just south of there

Unless he wanted the Sheppard Subway to go north then resume on Finch West. Even I think that's overkill.
Finch is perfect for an LRT line

 

[Palma]

Unless he wanted the Sheppard Subway to go north then resume on Finch West. Even I think that's overkill.
Finch is perfect for an LRT line

But then the residents coming from Sheppard west either on LRT or bus would need to make a transfer to subway. No difference than all the people complaining that switching sheppard from subway to LRT would mean a transfer.

 

[Rainforest]

Finch is perfect for an LRT line

Yes. For Finch, LRT is the right scale, while subway is unrealistic.

Someone should point that out to Mamo and the residents up at Finch with that Sheppard subway just south of there

Mammo is incorrigible; whereas the residents do not seem to support him on this issue anyway.

I keep hoping they have made a mistake and find the tracks will not support the subway train (somehow in my wild imagination). Then they can turn it into an LRT, ya I know more money but since the provincial govt for political reason gave the go ahead with funding they can pay the additional money

LRT might not fit into the Spadina tunnel, since it needs overhead wires.

 

[Rainforest]

Well, just like St. Clair - the question is interested in what - better transit for current users, or some other motive that has nothing to do with transit directly but masquerading as such. One may want subways, but if they aren't willing to pay for it (which is clear when that pesky issue of funding sources was raised at the event) - are you telling me that actual transit users won't take the next best thing out of spite?

Probably not; but they might gamble that their preferred option will be implemented soon enough in future, and therefore reject the next best thing.

Maria Augimery is known as a transit supporter and a TTC board member; but she mused about voting against Finch West BRT (when Stinz floated it as a part of another transit deal), on the ground that BRT is second best to LRT. The proposal died quickly anyway and we don't know if she would actually follow through, or accepted BRT if it was still on the table. But this example shows that strategic opposition to certain transit proposals is not patented by car-driving NIMBYs only.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Rainforest:

This constant search for the holy grail - when combined with limited resources and the electoral cycle(s) is the perfect trifecta to transit paralysis. Perfection isn't necessary - just make sure whatever one builds doesn't preclude future options. We are way past the point of talking - it's time to deliver real improvements.

AoD

 

[Voltz]

Rainforest:

Remember who organized this event.

AoD

A comment left in an article from the star on this meeting stated that before the event started the organizers went around asking everyone if they were pro LRT or subway. It would not surprise me if the speakers were hand picked.