[innsertnamehere]

It would be interesting to see if they can get the ROW put in around Agincourt asap, that way people can go up there and take a look at what the rest of it will look like.

thing is that the actual ROW will look very similar to both the spadina harbourfront and st. clair ROWS. the big differences will be the style of operation. (signal priority, 2 sided doors with low dwell times, stop spacing, etc)

 

[gweed123]

thing is that the actual ROW will look very similar to both the spadina harbourfront and st. clair ROWS. the big differences will be the style of operation. (signal priority, 2 sided doors with low dwell times, stop spacing, etc)

I know that, but both of those are in very urban environments, with a lot of side streets and frequent signals. If people can see it in a suburban environment, and see that it really doesn't affect traffic flow as much as they're being told it will, then more people may support it, especially if it becomes an election issue.

 

[W. K. Lis]

thing is that the actual ROW will look very similar to both the spadina harbourfront and st. clair ROWS. the big differences will be the style of operation. (signal priority, 2 sided doors with low dwell times, stop spacing, etc)

Firstly, St. Clair Avenue West is, generally, about 30m wide. St. Clair Avenue West is wider than Bathurst Street, in the same area, which is 27m wide. While the minimum width for traffic lanes is generally 3.2m, St. Clair's traffic lanes are permitted to use 3.0m. Traffic lanes on Sheppard are to be wider than the 3.2m minimum, at 3.3m.

From the Sheppard East LRT EA:

Urban Intersection - The cross section (see image) shows the prototypical intersection in an Urban Condition for the preferred design solution. The prototypical intersection along Sheppard Avenue East in an Urban Condition has a right-of-way width of approximately 36 metres. While the actual dimensions may be subject to some minor modifications during detailed design, the recommended design includes:

• 7.00 metres for the dedicated LRT right-of-way and raised curb
• 3.00 metre station platform;
• 3.00 left turn lane for vehicles;
• two travel lanes for vehicles in each direction at 3.30 metres for each lane;
• 1.60 metres for a bicycle lane in either direction; and,
• 3.30 metres remaining for sidewalk, split on either side of the street

I forgot, there are no bicycle lanes on St. Clair Avenue West.

 

[Hipster Duck]

It would be interesting to see if they can get the ROW put in around Agincourt asap, that way people can go up there and take a look at what the rest of it will look like.

The city did something similar in the late 80s when they replaced the Spadina bridge over the rail corridor with the present structure. It was built with the 510 ROW on it, even though the rest of the ROW to the north wouldn't be built for several more years. I was intrigued by it as a kid. I wonder if it had any effect on convincing the locals that the world wasn't going to end if a streetcar ROW was built along Spadina.

 

[k10ery]

thing is that the actual ROW will look very similar to both the spadina harbourfront and st. clair ROWS. the big differences will be the style of operation. (signal priority, 2 sided doors with low dwell times, stop spacing, etc)

I think the main thing would be to show people that they aren't losing traffic lanes because of the LRT. (Well, not much anyway.)

 

[datamouse]

Speeding the project along because of worry that the next election might overturn it doesn't sit well with me. It's as if they acknowledge that it's unpopular to a high degree and don't want to face the voters.

 

[jje1000]

Speeding the project along because of worry that the next election might overturn it doesn't sit well with me. It's as if they acknowledge that it's unpopular to a high degree and don't want to face the voters.

I don't quite see it that way- speeding the project without letting residents know would seem more that way.

 

[M II A II R II K]

What about rail crossing barriers to be included in this...

 

[andrewpmk]

Speeding the project along because of worry that the next election might overturn it doesn't sit well with me. It's as if they acknowledge that it's unpopular to a high degree and don't want to face the voters.

I agree. This project is highly unpopular and there will undoubtedly be a centrist pro-subway candidate in the 2014 election. A proper subway is needed to provide a real alternative to driving on the 401 in heavy rush hour traffic. Two disjointed light rail lines on Sheppard and Finch are useless for the vast majority of people who drive in this area because of the transfers and because they are unlikely to be time-competitive with driving even in heavy rush hour traffic jams. A real transit alternative is needed to the 401 now and doing nothing is not an option. A huge increase in funding is needed to fund transit properly in Toronto. Extending a half finished subway with a light rail line is dumb and no city with adequate levels of transit funding ever does something as crazy as this. St. Clair is not a model to follow because it takes 30 minutes to go 6km which is slower than bicycling and Sheppard will not be much faster due to having stops at every minor intersection.

 

[sixrings]

I agree. This project is highly unpopular and there will undoubtedly be a centrist pro-subway candidate in the 2014 election. A proper subway is needed to provide a real alternative to driving on the 401 in heavy rush hour traffic. Two disjointed light rail lines on Sheppard and Finch are useless for the vast majority of people who drive in this area because of the transfers and because they are unlikely to be time-competitive with driving even in heavy rush hour traffic jams. A real transit alternative is needed to the 401 now and doing nothing is not an option. A huge increase in funding is needed to fund transit properly in Toronto. Extending a half finished subway with a light rail line is dumb and no city with adequate levels of transit funding ever does something as crazy as this. St. Clair is not a model to follow because it takes 30 minutes to go 6km which is slower than bicycling and Sheppard will not be much faster due to having stops at every minor intersection.

Don't worry. There will be bike lanes if you want to get there faster.

 

[andrewpmk]

Montreal built a real subway along the Blue Line, which parallels the extremely busy Autoroute 40. Sheppard has way more development than the Blue Line and the 401 is muh busier than A40.

The St. Clair streetcar averages about 12km/h, and the Sheppard streetcar will be a bit faster but still much slower than a subway due to stops at minor intersections, delays at red lights and 5 minutes wasted transferring at Don Mills. On the other hand a Sheppard subway could do the trip between STC and Yonge in around 20 minutes which is faster than 401 in peak periods.

 

[planning2plan]

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2012/04/25/torontos-transit-city-back-in-play/

Enlarge: http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Toronto-2012-Update.jpg

Finally! A map that more or less throws all the current proposals in one spot and does it in a clear way.

 

[nfitz]

Montreal built a real subway along the Blue Line, which parallels the extremely busy Autoroute 40. Sheppard has way more development than the Blue Line and the 401 is muh busier than A40.

Montreal didn't build the Blue line to parallel the 40. I'm not even sure it does; the western end is closer to the 20 than the 40 - and at the time it was started, the western terminus was supposed to be Metro Lafleur, south of the 20, and the eastern terminus was supposed to be in Montréal-Nord, near the river somewhere, well north of the 40. I was living in Montreal when the Blue Line was being built, and the Orange line up Decarie. I certainly remember discussion of the Orange Line paralleling Decarie, but I don't recall ever hearing discussion of how the Blue Line would parallel the 40.

The St. Clair streetcar averages about 12km/h, and the Sheppard streetcar will be a bit faster but still much slower than a subway due to stops at minor intersections, delays at red lights and 5 minutes wasted transferring at Don Mills.

That a big exaggeration isn't it? A "bit" faster"? They are talking about 23 km/hr on Sheppard. The Yonge subway schedule has it running the 2.5 km from Bloor to King in 7 minutes—only 21 km/hr; and that's the schedule. It often seems slower than that at busy periods!

 

[CapitalSeven]

"The St. Clair streetcar averages about 12km/h, and the Sheppard streetcar will be a bit faster but still much slower than a subway..."

Hold on a minute. The latest TTC Service Summary gives speed ranges in St. Clair from 14.5 to 17.5. The estimates for Sheppard LRT are about 23. The Sheppard Subway runs at 29.5.

Sheppard LRT will be about 1.44 times faster ("a bit") than St. Clair, which is itself about 1.33 times as fast as you say.

Sheppard Subway is about 1.28 times faster than the ("much slower") LRT would be.

Perhaps a career checking facts for Rob Ford would be up your ROW.

 

[Lone Primate]

I don't quite see it that way- speeding the project without letting residents know would seem more that way.

Yeah, I agree. This is very public. And I'm not seeing blood in the streets.

I'm a subway fan... frankly, if I had my druthers, I'd like to see a Sheppard Subway all the way from Scarborough Town Centre to Downsview. Just seems natural to me. But I understand why that's probably not going to happen, and I'm enthusiastic to see an LRT instead. It will be good to have lines in other outer areas of the city; it's way overdue. I was let down when Ford cancelled Transit City and I'm really cheered that Council has overruled him. It's the kind of thing that demonstrates the saving graces of democracy.

I still can't fathom how that man got elected and made me genuinely nostalgic for the days of Mayor Miller... a guy I finally came around to being ready to vote for, till he took my chance away.