[lastcommodore]

I'm surprised the transit numbers are higher in Mississauga than Brampton. Maybe that is helped by the Lakeshore line.

The Milton Line actually. Probably 2 or 3 times the ridership of the Clarkson and Port Credit stations.

Based off 2023 numbers (If you want to extrapolate to 2025 numbers, add 50%)

LSW, Port Credit + Clarkson: 3,650,550 boardings + alightings (+901,716 if you include Long Branch)
Milton, Dixie + Cooksville + Erindale + Streetsville + Meadowvale + Lisgar: 2,211,283 B+A (All of this is less than Clarkson alone at 2,336,591 riders!)
Kitchener, Bramalkea + Brampton + Mt. Pleasant GO: 3,812,967 B+A (+638,623 if you include Malton)

 

[doady]

I was talking about average weekday boardings, not annual boardings, because the transit mode share numbers are for commutes only. Of course Milton Line is not going to have high annual boardings since there is no service outside of weekday peak hours.

 

[Dan416]

I was talking about average weekday boardings, not annual boardings, because the transit mode share numbers are for commutes only. Of course Milton Line is not going to have high annual boardings since there is no service outside of weekday peak hours.

Depends if you count trains only or trains + buses, because Milton definitely has off-peak bus service. And I realized Milton actually has better late night service than Lakeshore. I wasn't planning to be out too late last night, and I had taken Lakeshore, but I realized the last train back was at 12:47 am, whereas the last Milton bus is at 2:20 am. My car was at Port Credit, so I had to leave early to catch the 12:47 LW train.

 

[anb]

Depends if you count trains only or trains + buses, because Milton definitely has off-peak bus service. And I realized Milton actually has better late night service than Lakeshore. I wasn't planning to be out too late last night, and I had taken Lakeshore, but I realized the last train back was at 12:47 am, whereas the last Milton bus is at 2:20 am. My car was at Port Credit, so I had to leave early to catch the 12:47 LW train.

Actually they always run late night buses at the bus terminal up until 2-3am on each GO line after the final trains depart Union.

GO bus route 18 is the bus equivalent to the LW line, and there are buses at 1:05am and 2:30am at Union Bus Terminal that go straight to Port Credit first before going to the other stations west of it, all the way to Hamilton. And there's still the route 16 buses that go from Union straight to Hamilton non stop and it's an all day bus service. Overall, the LW corridor still has the higher ridership on both its trains and buses.

 

[doady]

Right, I forgot about the buses. Milton train around 31k per weekday, bus around 6k per weekday. Lakeshore West train 64k. Before COVID anyways...

Before the LRT construction, I preferred to take the 103 all the way down to Port Credit outside rush hour. They replaced the 38 on Britannia/Bancroft with the 37, then they cancelled the 37, so Erindale no longer a good option during rush unless I am willing to walk or transfer to 39/43.

So now I prefer to take subway. 5 to Long Branch was too slow before they took it off Ogden, I might try it again. 5 doesn't have 24 hour service though.

Btw, anyone else find it annoying the website doesn't allow you to see trips after 12am unless you set time as 11:55PM? If you set time to 12AM or later, you get no results.

 

[drum118]

I have been asked the last few days what my view were on having miWay and other transit systems uploaded to the Province Is the Province now taking a real look in doing this London UK model starting off with a few systems first??

I have stated that has been the goal since 2006/07 when Metrolinx was created that all GTHA systems would become the London UK model with all transit systems wearing the same uniform and all buses would be the same colour. Various routes would be tender out and run by X and be micromanagement by the cites with various operators saying what the headway will be for poor ridership routes. This will be union busting. York Region does this today with different operators on renewable timeframe contract and tendering.

The Atlantic City Jitney Association is done this way but may different today when I last saw it in 2014 and talking to various operators. No idea what part the city is having a say in this setup since Jitney services has bee around since 1915 . Some routes have been bought out other other operators. Bulk of service operate around rush hour service as well off peak, There used to be all nighttime service but the is well over a decade ago and the city is in a decline. They used to pickup and drop off riders at their home, There are no 30 or 40 foot buses with the buses been cutaway in various sizes. Back in 2014 a lot of those cutaways were non accessible.

Right, I forgot about the buses. Milton train around 31k per weekday, bus around 6k per weekday. Lakeshore West train 64k. Before COVID anyways...

Before the LRT construction, I preferred to take the 103 all the way down to Port Credit outside rush hour. They replaced the 38 on Britannia/Bancroft with the 37, then they cancelled the 37, so Erindale no longer a good option during rush unless I am willing to walk or transfer to 39/43.

So now I prefer to take subway. 5 to Long Branch was too slow before they took it off Ogden, I might try it again. 5 doesn't have 24 hour service though.

Btw, anyone else find it annoying the website doesn't allow you to see trips after 12am unless you set time as 11:55PM? If you set time to 12AM or later, you get no results.

Don't take the 5 as it runs every 30 minutes all day and longer on the weekends. 5 used to be 20 minute off peak and 10 minutes for peak service, Like you, I took the 103 to PC but ridership was very poor off peak and why it was cut back to the Queensway. LRT construction had nothing to do with the cutting of the route. The 103 headway took a spike as well and chase a lot of riders away or forced them to travel a better way like getting a car.

Even the 24 hour service has been down graded. As for trip planning, I agree with you on that as well it can offer some long walking to get to a bus route some 30 minutes away. There is a plan for a new trip planner with no timeframe when it will happen like the next bus system that started testing in 2022. Saw the system in 2023 and reinventing the wheel again. There are a few stops with the next bus system that work poorly. How about it saying the bus is two minutes away yet loading riders at the stop. They are too small and in the wrong location. Some systems in Europe and the US have the sign on the bus pole at or near the top considering there isn't a bus shelter there in the first place.

 

[MiExpress]

Don't take the 5 as it runs every 30 minutes all day and longer on the weekends. 5 used to be 20 minute off peak and 10 minutes for peak service, Like you, I took the 103 to PC but ridership was very poor off peak and why it was cut back to the Queensway. LRT construction had nothing to do with the cutting of the route. The 103 headway took a spike as well and chase a lot of riders away or forced them to travel a better way like getting a car.

Effective with the April 27 service changes, the route 5 weekday midday service will be increased from 30 minutes to 15 minutes resulting in the route having 15 minute frequency during the 'core' hours of 600a to 600p on weekdays.. Unfortunately, the late evening service is still stuck at 40 minutes.

Even the 24 hour service has been down graded

The 24 hour service has remained substantially the same since it was introduced back in April 2019, in fact it has recently expanded with route 1 having 24 hour service expanded to Friday overnights. The only reduction that has occurred in the 6 years of overnight service is reducing route 17 from 3 to 2 buses during the overnight period, but this was partly because the original schedule was far too generous and even with 2 buses they are able to maintain 30 minute frequency.

 

[doady]

I have been asked the last few days what my view were on having miWay and other transit systems uploaded to the Province Is the Province now taking a real look in doing this London UK model starting off with a few systems first??

I have stated that has been the goal since 2006/07 when Metrolinx was created that all GTHA systems would become the London UK model with all transit systems wearing the same uniform and all buses would be the same colour. Various routes would be tender out and run by X and be micromanagement by the cites with various operators saying what the headway will be for poor ridership routes. This will be union busting. York Region does this today with different operators on renewable timeframe contract and tendering.

The Atlantic City Jitney Association is done this way but may different today when I last saw it in 2014 and talking to various operators. No idea what part the city is having a say in this setup since Jitney services has bee around since 1915 . Some routes have been bought out other other operators. Bulk of service operate around rush hour service as well off peak, There used to be all nighttime service but the is well over a decade ago and the city is in a decline. They used to pickup and drop off riders at their home, There are no 30 or 40 foot buses with the buses been cutaway in various sizes. Back in 2014 a lot of those cutaways were non accessible.


Don't take the 5 as it runs every 30 minutes all day and longer on the weekends. 5 used to be 20 minute off peak and 10 minutes for peak service, Like you, I took the 103 to PC but ridership was very poor off peak and why it was cut back to the Queensway. LRT construction had nothing to do with the cutting of the route. The 103 headway took a spike as well and chase a lot of riders away or forced them to travel a better way like getting a car.

Even the 24 hour service has been down graded. As for trip planning, I agree with you on that as well it can offer some long walking to get to a bus route some 30 minutes away. There is a plan for a new trip planner with no timeframe when it will happen like the next bus system that started testing in 2022. Saw the system in 2023 and reinventing the wheel again. There are a few stops with the next bus system that work poorly. How about it saying the bus is two minutes away yet loading riders at the stop. They are too small and in the wrong location. Some systems in Europe and the US have the sign on the bus pole at or near the top considering there isn't a bus shelter there in the first place.

Outside of London, transit in UK has suffered a lot because of privatization of transit. Ridership in most UK cities is worse than Canadian cities now.

Even in GTA, you can see how much transit in York Region suffers from private operations. YRT spends more than Brampton Transit and MiWay but gets less service. Veolia pays those drivers much less than Brampton Transit and MiWay too.

Gross operating budget (2025)
MiWay $240.9 million
York Region Transit $327.2 million

Annual service hours (2025)
MiWay 1.60 million
York Region Transit 1.46 million

 

[cheerio]

Outside of London, transit in UK has suffered a lot because of privatization of transit. Ridership in most UK cities is worse than Canadian cities now.

Even in GTA, you can see how much transit in York Region suffers from private operations. YRT spends more than Brampton Transit and MiWay but gets less service. Veolia pays those drivers much less than Brampton Transit and MiWay too.

Gross operating budget (2025)
MiWay $240.9 million
York Region Transit $327.2 million

Annual service hours (2025)
MiWay 1.6 million
York Region Transit 1.4 million

Wow those numbers are eye opening, makes you wonder why conservative governments are so hell bent on privatization in every service they traditionally provide...

 

[doady]

Wow those numbers are eye opening, makes you wonder why conservative governments are so hell bent on privatization in every service they traditionally provide...

lol, probably same reason why they tried to open up the Greenbelt, and now trying to change the Freedom of Information act.

I found more precise (and accurate) numbers for YRT service hours so I have edited them. Note that it is budgeted service hours for YRT and actual service hours for MiWay. Many of MiWay's planned service increases were cancelled due to ridership loss, and so they actually spent less than the $240.9 million they budgeted for. The budget was for 1.67 million service hours.

Brampton Transit operating budget was $246.2 million in 2025, but I could not find annual service hours, but probably safe to assume it is similar to MiWay.

Apparently, Veolia operations for YRT got replaced by a company called TOK. So it's TOK and Miller Transit now. Are TOK wages any better than Veolia back in the day? Let's see...

Operator hourly wage (2022)
MiWay $37.46
Brampton Transit $37.30
York Region Transit (Miller Transit) $31.41
York Region Transit (TOK Transit) $30.06

Labour took up slightly over 3/4 of the MiWay operating costs in 2019. Bus operators in York Region getting paid 17-19% less than their comrades in Mississauga and Brampton means something like $40 million to $46 million in the pockets of the suits at TOK and Miller Transit. And then there's the extra $116.6 million that York Region taxpayers have to pay for their transit service (on top of the $0.50 or $0.60 higher fares that riders have to pay). Big profits.

 

[MiExpress]

Outside of London, transit in UK has suffered a lot because of privatization of transit. Ridership in most UK cities is worse than Canadian cities now.

Even in GTA, you can see how much transit in York Region suffers from private operations. YRT spends more than Brampton Transit and MiWay but gets less service. Veolia pays those drivers much less than Brampton Transit and MiWay too.

Gross operating budget (2025)
MiWay $240.9 million
York Region Transit $327.2 million

Annual service hours (2025)
MiWay 1.60 million
York Region Transit 1.46 million

lol, probably same reason why they tried to open up the Greenbelt, and now trying to change the Freedom of Information act.

I found more precise (and accurate) numbers for YRT service hours so I have edited them. Note that it is budgeted service hours for YRT and actual service hours for MiWay. Many of MiWay's planned service increases were cancelled due to ridership loss, and so they actually spent less than the $240.9 million they budgeted for. The budget was for 1.67 million service hours.

Brampton Transit operating budget was $246.2 million in 2025, but I could not find annual service hours, but probably safe to assume it is similar to MiWay.

Apparently, Veolia operations for YRT got replaced by a company called TOK. So it's TOK and Miller Transit now. Are TOK wages any better than Veolia back in the day? Let's see...

Operator hourly wage (2022)
MiWay $37.46
Brampton Transit $37.30
York Region Transit (Miller Transit) $31.41
York Region Transit (TOK Transit) $30.06

Labour took up slightly over 3/4 of the MiWay operating costs in 2019. Bus operators in York Region getting paid 17-19% less than their comrades in Mississauga and Brampton means something like $40 million to $46 million in the pockets of the suits at TOK and Miller Transit. And then there's the extra $116.6 million that York Region taxpayers have to pay for their transit service (on top of the $0.50 or $0.60 higher fares that riders have to pay). Big profits.

Your gross operating budget figure for YRT likely includes the cost of paratransit operations, which is not included in Mississauga or Brampton's gross operating budgets as paratransit service is delivered by Peel Region. I only did a quick search but I was unable to locate broken out costs for YRT conventional vs paratransit service.

One better way to look at the issue might be trying to compare direct hourly operating costs between agencies - YRT's contractors charge a hourly cost which is to include labour, fuel, running maintenance etc. It is true that the contractors profit; lower wages are a factor here, and in addition, before YRT built their own garage facilities the contractors were also profiting from using their own property to store and maintain YRT buses, charging that cost either as a monthly lease or built into the hourly rate billed.

If YRT were to bring operations in house, which I do support, likely the wages would increase to be close to surrounding transit agencies so there would be little change in operating costs.

York Region's issue as you correctly identified in the past it not necessarily it's operating costs, but lack of willingness until recently to start investing in transit growth, as well as flawed service plans and strategies in the past.