[BMO]

I'm sure you are well aware that the majority of the cost for this "little 20km line" if for the original planned tunneled portion from west of Keele to west of Leslie.

No matter what glories you attribute to monorail, this section is going underground - the street is too narrow and too crowded. There is no room for even your smaller monorail pylons and the myopic citizens of Toronto will never agree to an elevated transit line through that section of the city (to say nothing of roller coaster ride they'd get between Bathurst and Avenue Rd).

So regardless of what ends up happening east of Leslie, the tunneled portion will cost an arm and a leg whether it is LRT, monorail or subway because it is being tunneled under a well developed urban environment. To suggest Eglinton could be built for pennies on the dollar if only we embraced monorail is a non-starter.

This. the only thing is that using LRT leaves room for allowing spur lines at grade, or what have you as well.

 

[nfitz]

$8.2 billion for a little 20km line............thank god the rest of the planet doesn't work on Toronto budgets or nothing would ever get built.

Like in New York City, where they are building a 14-km stretch of the new Second Avenue Subway for over $17 billion?

 

[BMO]

Like in New York City, where they are building a 14-km stretch of the new Second Avenue Subway for over $17 billion?

That is crazy! Imagine how far $17B would go in Toronto!

 

[Asterix]

That is crazy! Imagine how far $17B would go in Toronto!

Apparently we could have monorails up the wazoo.

 

[gweed123]

Like in New York City, where they are building a 14-km stretch of the new Second Avenue Subway for over $17 billion?

To be fair though, the Second Ave subway is probably going to carry about the same number of pphpd as all the Transit City lines put together... Add up the cost of all of TC (even the rough estimates of the unfunded portions), and you'd come up with about the same number, and about the same number of daily trips.

 

[nfitz]

And yet the design capacity is similar to the Sheppard subway that will only carry a small fraction!

 

[rbt]

Apparently we could have monorails up the wazoo.

That's a difficult place to build monorails too; being a tunnel.

 

[ssiguy2]

I certainly do not that Eglinton could be built for "pennies"..........never once did I say that. Tunneling east of Don Mills is an obscene waste of precious transit funds. The advantage of a monorail is that where elevated it has a smaller footprint, has a far smaller shadow, is much quieter and faster and cheaper to build.
I have ALWAYS stated that no matter what the technology all lines should be underground in the original City of Toronto boundaries where there is no rail ROW to take advantage of. It's the suburbs where elevation and using rail ROW should be used with only small exceptions.
Paris new massive system expansion will be completely elevated and that is why they can both afford it and build it in just 15 years. Same thing for Sao Paulo's 110 km new monorail system which is to be completed by 2021 and carry an estimated one million passengers a day by 2030. It is why Mumbai will have it's new 70km monorail system built by 2018.
I have a question.......................what exactly is Metrolinx contributing to this expansion. Is it just basically just distributing the money from Queen's Park or does it have revenue streams available to it like Translink's gas taxes?

 

[ssiguy2]

Wow, just checked the monorails.org site and seems another massive monorail system is going to be built.
The city of Chennai {Madras} is currently building a metro line of 40km and that construction will continue. It, however, is mostly underground, is expensive, and taking a long time to build. The new state government has just decided to go back to monorail {as was previously proposed} and halt any new metro lines.
It's alternative...........................a whopping 330km monorail system using 18 different lines. Please not that it will be 300km of track as 30km will be interlined......................in other words those of you who don't think monorails can switch track both easily and quickly are far out of date. It is a non-issue except for LRT lobby which keeps bringing it up.
The city and state want to bring ridership levels for the metro area from their current 27% to 46% by 2026.
It will be, by far, the largest system in the world assuming China doesn't expand it's systems faster. It will be built in phases with the longest line being 42km.
They did not give a definat timeline but by their 2026 ridership goals at least half would have to be done by then, possibly all of it as monorail is very fast to construct.
Aren't you glad Toronto is too "world class" for monorails?

 

[Justin10000]

Wow, no one really cares what Chennai is doing!

 

[Asterix]

I certainly do not that Eglinton could be built for "pennies"..........never once did I say that.

Well, your statement:
"$8.2 billion for a little 20km line............thank god the rest of the planet doesn't work on Toronto budgets or nothing would ever get built. "

Sure seems to imply you think the line would be way cheaper if only they were to pick monorail technology.

Tunneling the portion east of Leslie is expected to be in the $2 billion range in additional costs, based on Metrolinx diverting that amount from Sheppard and Finch. That would still leave the original planned tunnel costing close to $6 billion, an amount that would be negligibly changed by monorail.

The advantage of a monorail is that where elevated it has a smaller footprint, has a far smaller shadow, is much quieter and faster and cheaper to build.

What about stations and their footprint? How much would that be at say Don Mills or Vic Park? Surface running LRT would have much cheaper stations (that don't require escalators and elevators and elevated platforms).

 

[ssiguy2]

Wow, no one really cares what Chennai is doing!

I totally agree and that's the problem. Toronto should know exactly what all other cities in the world are doing and thus see how truly pathetic building just 28km of rapid/mass transit expansion is. It exemplifies how Toronto will continue to fall further behind in it's transportation needs. Toronto should be looking at other world cities and asking themselves how developing and already developed countries are building massive new expansions or even totally new systems and all we can do is 28km. Only in a small and system would this be considered "a game changer" while it's no such thing.
Comparing it to at grade LRT is a not an apt comparison as we all know that will no doubt be cheaper but is not totally grade separated. They are two totally different service levels. Let's compare one totally grade separated system to another so we can make fair comparisons.
Also, I know Eglinton would be just as expensive as monorail in the tunneled section it's the elevated sections or using rail ROW where monorail is cheaper, faster to build, and far friendlier to the urban landscape than either elevated subway or LRT.
If Toronto wants to do grade separated subway, SkyTrain, LRT, or horse drawn carriage then fine but I just do not understand why the aversion to monorail. It just seems so myopic borderline childish to me.
It just seems like a total disregard for transit riders and taxpayers to not look at all options.
If after doing a comprehensive study or a certain line looking at capacity, price, operating costs, urban design and compatibility, safety, ability to work in all climatic conditions, etc, etc and if Bombardier designs such systems {for the obvious political needs and the clear reality that no matter what the technology or even if it is proprietary, Toronto only has and will only ever have one supplier} and they feel that subway is the best technology then they should use it and same goes for LRT or SkyTrain.
All those things must be taken into consideration when making an informed choice and subway, LRT, and SkyTrain should all be looked at seriously but Bombardier also builds monorails so why is it not even considered?
Whether one thinks a system or line should be monorail or not is not the issue but rather compare ALL systems to find the technology that best serves the transit riders and tax payers.

 

[Mapleson]

I have a question.......................what exactly is Metrolinx contributing to this expansion. Is it just basically just distributing the money from Queen's Park or does it have revenue streams available to it like Translink's gas taxes?

Metrolinx is Queen's Park's at-arms-length way of spending transit capital. They have no deticated revenue streams, as we saw with $4billion being cut from Transit City last year amongst other Metrolinx spending priorities. Metrolinx is supposed to reduce the political fiddling in the process.

 

[EnviroTO]

Wow, just checked the monorails.org site and seems another massive monorail system is going to be built.

Wow. Just checked the monorails.org website on May 2nd. Monorails are crashing and causing diarrhea.

 

[ssiguy2]

Wow, just checked the monorail.org website and they listed childish, stupid, and irresponsible people who stop monorails from being constructed and your name came up.
Seriously, why has there never been monorail even looked into for Toronto? I truly do not understand the aversion to a proven technology that many cities are beginning to embrace.