[LowerBay]

IT DOES NOT WORK!

Here were some of my typical commutes ...

I lived at Islington and Steeles ...

To Markham (Warden/7) -- 25 mins by 407, 2.5 hours by transit.

To downtown (Spadina and King) -- 1.75 hours by transit, 45 min by car.

To STC -- 2 hours by transit, 45 mins by 401.

To Mississauga (403 & Hwy 10) -- 2.5 hours by transit, 30 mins by car.

 

[kEiThZ]

So you are arguing that because service is already poor, we should invest less? If anything your example shows that we need to invest more in the suburbs than in the core. A significantly rapid cross-town route (say Sheppard subway from STC to Jane or a 401 busway or GO Crosstown) would all have made significant impacts on your travel time. That's why we need to invest in transit in the burbs.

 

[LowerBay]

And would Transit City help any of those commutes? No. The commute to Spadina and King would have been helped by the Spadina subway extension though.

I will never forget the time it took me 3 hours to get from Vaughan to Markham by transit when my car was being fixed. I almost started crying like a baby.

The distances to major work centres in the suburbs and the diffuse origin-destination patterns make transit unworkable and uneconomical. Who are you guys kidding? Maybe local short trips can be improved, but that's a drop in the bucket, and not worth the money that will be spent. That money would be better spent on roads in 'burbs and improving transit downtown.

 

[doady]

Inner suburban Toronto (Etobicoke, Scarborough, North York) has higher transit ridership than most inner cities in North America. Most corridors have 3 minute bus service. Finch East has up to 72 second bus service... which other bus routes in North Amercia have 72 second frequency? New York City has the busiest bus routes in the US, and none of them are as frequent as Finch East.

Even service in the 905 is not bad. You would be hard-pressed to find another route outside of the GTA with frequency has high as Steeles, Hurontario or Yonge (each around 4 minutes).

So transit in the suburbs doesn't work? Yeah, whatever.

 

[kEiThZ]

^^ Nobody on here is arguing that Transit City is a solution to all our transit woes. I am certainly no fan of the plan. However, that's not all that Metrolinx is building. Viva, the 407 busway, the Yonge and Spadina subway extensions, numerous GO improvements, etc. will dramatically alter the way people travel in city.

That's why your assertion that we should invest less in transit services for the burbs is still ridiculous. Transit City might not help you significantly (Finch-Sheppard East LRT would help you get to STC a bit faster), but many of the other improvements most certainly would. Even from Islington and Steeles Markham and downtown will be a lot more accessible because of the subway extensions and VIVA improvements and the 407 Transitway. Even access to Mississauga will improve with the busway they are building there and with the Eglinton LRT going into Mississauga eventually.

 

[doady]

IT DOES NOT WORK!

Here were some of my typical commutes ...

I lived at Islington and Steeles ...

To Mississauga (403 & Hwy 10) -- 2.5 hours by transit, 30 mins by car.

Funny, it takes people only 40-50 minutes to get from Square One to York U.

 

[kettal]

IT DOES NOT WORK!

Here were some of my typical commutes ...

I lived at Islington and Steeles ...

To Markham (Warden/7) -- 25 mins by 407, 2.5 hours by transit.

To downtown (Spadina and King) -- 1.75 hours by transit, 45 min by car.

To STC -- 2 hours by transit, 45 mins by 401.

To Mississauga (403 & Hwy 10) -- 2.5 hours by transit, 30 mins by car.

These were your typical commute times? Either you're the luckiest guy in town or you're forgetting what these highways look like on a normal weekday.

 

[LowerBay]

First, it really doesn't matter how often the buses run if they take forever to get to a destination that's across town.

Second, the new services you mention wouldn't significantly improve crosstown suburban commutes to the extent that leaving the car at home would become a viable option.

In the suburbs you get more benefit per dollar spent by simply investing that money in road widening. Downtown, the opposite is true.

Miller and Giambrone are just out of touch with suburban origin-destination travel patterns, and their Transit City plan that focuses on local travel is a reflection of that.

 

[LowerBay]

Funny, it takes people only 40-50 minutes to get from Square One to York U.

I have to get to York U first and wait for the connection ... no? Otherwise I'm taking the Islington 37 down to Islington Stn. and then taking a MT bus ... plus the walking and wait times at both ends and the transfer ... 2 1/2 HOURS!

By car, 401 ... transfer to 403 ... 35 mins.

 

[LowerBay]

These were your typical commute times? Either you're the luckiest guy in town or you're forgetting what these highways look like on a normal weekday.

Not if you take them at the right time. 407 eastbound is never congested. 427/Lakeshore or Gardiner works after 9:30am for a late 10am start. 401 eastbound is hit and miss. West to Mississauga works via 407 or 401/403, depending on the time of day.

 

[kEiThZ]

Not if you take them at the right time. 407 eastbound is never congested. 427/Lakeshore or Gardiner works after 9:30am for a late 10am start. 401 eastbound is hit and miss. West to Mississauga works via 407 or 401/403, depending on the time of day.

Yet, most of us care about transit during rush hour. It's great that your commute favours the car. A good chunk of residents in this city aren't so fortunate (if they have a car).

 

[kEiThZ]

LB,

Despite your personal experience, are you still arguing that we should not invest in more in transit?

I am confused here. You keep putting up examples of how bad transit is in the burbs. But then reach the conclusion that we are putting in too much?

 

[kettal]

LB,

Despite your personal experience, are you still arguing that we should not invest in more in transit?

I am confused here. You keep putting up examples of how bad transit is in the burbs. But then reach the conclusion that we are putting in too much?

I'm also confused. Finch is one of the heaviest traveled bus routes in the country, yet he's saying investing in improving it is a waste, and they should all be using a car instead.

 

[Disparishun]

IT DOES NOT WORK!
Here were some of my typical commutes ...
I lived at Islington and Steeles ...

Mind you, I think you are right that

(1) some suburban areas are better-served than others -- Islington and Steeles is not too good, as far as things go, and

(2) the worst suburban transit service is when you try and go from one suburban area to another, which is mostly what you were doing.

For most of those commutes, you're right that a car is the best and most flexible way to go. In other words, transit certainly needs to improve -- (2) in particular points to just how far off GO Transit is in providing a meaningful all-day backbone to supplement the more local service provided by other modes. Widening streets would do little to address that improvement, though; the wider streets would just fill up with more cars.

Better street grids with more through streets, better urban planning to phase in density and, in particular, a long-haul backbone that is less hub-and-spoke and more hub-to-hub mesh, are surely the most important three components of the answer. Not wider streets.

 

[doady]

I have to get to York U first and wait for the connection ... no? Otherwise I'm taking the Islington 37 down to Islington Stn. and then taking a MT bus ... plus the walking and wait times at both ends and the transfer ... 2 1/2 HOURS!

By car, 401 ... transfer to 403 ... 35 mins.

It only take 40 minutes to get from Square One to York U by bus, that is a fact. Your claim that transit cannot work in the suburbs is ridiculous.