Allandale25
Senior Member
Just curious but where and how would Moose have the funds to pay for staff at this point?
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- Thread starter SaugeenJunction
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Just curious but where and how would Moose have the funds to pay for staff at this point?
Urban Sky
Senior Member
Please ask @Joseph Potvin if he's currently hiring an accountant if you want to know how exactly MOOSE finances itself. Me for my part, seeing him advocating in newspaper articles and this forum (and still bothering to reply to some rather confrontational comments) is proof enough that MOOSE commands sufficient financial resources to pay him and to advance the project throughout the planning stage...
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Allandale25
Senior Member
^ Given the timelines posted above by others and the lack of substantial documentation on the Moose proposal, I for one wouldn't make those kind of assumptions in both regards.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
Can we at least agree that MOOSE pays its employees or is that already too uncertain for you?
Allandale25
Senior Member
^ The challenge with a private sector idea that's not part of a normal transit EA or procurement of a project tied to a public plan is that there are a lot of unanswered questions.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Maybe enough people have done one and will not invest as there isn't a chance of success by a private company. Show my a private passenger company that has not raised fees and/or reduced service.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Worth posting here for comparison, is GO's annual operating costs for GO's much-more-extensive rail network (than even MOOSE's full build-out). Though this includes GO buses.
Source: Metrolinx 2015 Annual Report
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Charles
New Member
To date, all 'investment' into the MOOSE project has been funded "in-kind". In other words, the words, they are providing their own time and services in exchange for future equity in the railway company. (Maybe not the best definition of "in-kind" investment, but perhaps Joseph Potvin can clarify, he's the economist and Project spokesman). By latest count, they've invested approximately $500k (of their time and resources) over 8 years amongst a dozen entities that make up the consortium.
In Joseph Potvin's own words "All the "in-kind" investment of Phase 1(a), and as far as has been done into Phase 1(b) by MOOSE Consorium member companies, are indeed exchanged for promissory notes. "
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=7961057&highlight=in-kind#post7961057
The exchange of Letters of Interest with LeMine last summer was the first chance at any significant financial investment from outside their own internal resources. That resulted in a 3 month due diligence review which was to subsequently determine if a feasibility study would be financed. As a result of that due diligence review was a decision not to proceed with any financial investment. Apparently there was insufficient merit in the project to even carry on with an investment into a full and complete feasibility study.
https://www.letsgomoose.ca/wp-conte...onsortiaNA-MooseConsortium_2017-07-01bPDF.pdf
As Joseph has recently stated on SSF, they are in subsequent discussions with another entity, but have yet to solidify any financing. In his words, "an investor package is being prepared"
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=8097981&highlight=syndication#post8097981
I will stick by my earlier statement, in my opinion, MOOSE is an entity with no financial investors. To the best of my knowledge they have only and always been self-funded.
On a related side note, the first and most critical infusion of money that MOOSE requires is to conduct their feasibility study (estimated at $5M). If you look at the documentation over the years you will see that that investment has never occurred, but that only internal resources have been applied to that effort.
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Urban Sky
Senior Member
Even if that is true, it doesn't change that Allendale's suspicion that MOOSE can't pay any employees is ridiculous...
Charles
New Member
I don't believe MOOSE as a corporate entity technically has any employees.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
Well, then don't believe and maybe come back when you have more than speculation about boring technicalities to offer...^^
Allandale25
Senior Member
Boring technicalities? I thought UT was the perfect place to discuss all technicalities.
I was asking a genuine question: "Just curious but where and how would Moose have the funds to pay for staff at this point?" It's not ridiculous to want to know more about an entity that wants to provide a service for riders.
Think of it tbis way. Do people have questions all the time about Metrolinx, GO and the TTC when it comes to transit projects? Why do RFQs and RFPs ask companies for information on their ability to deliver what they say thet can? Why are some here seemingly suggesting Moose should get a free pass? Look at the Star article today on the Minister/Metrolinx situation on station locations.
I think it would be ridiculous if we didn't want more information about a private sector proposing something for Ottawa that was outside the current pinkci sector plan.
I'm not sure but does any kind of corporate registration require companies to list how many employees they have?
Urban Sky
Senior Member
We are in a subforum for questions of infrastructure and transportation, not: corporate finance and accounting.
Okay, then, it's less your question which is ridiculous, it's that you seriously expect MOOSE to answer it...
Refer back to my analogy with my medical records, tax returns and social insurance number: I'm not going to share them with you, unless I feel "compelled by either the law or by the strength of your arguments that doing so is in the interest of myself and of my personal stakeholders..."
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Charles
New Member
OK. Please tell me how a corporate entity with no revenue, no investors, and no viable financial plans is able to create any form of infrastructure or effective transportation network.
That's what bothers me about a lot of the supporters of MOOSE and the proposed regional railway network on this forum. The focus is on what is technically possible rather than looking at what is a solid business case. If you can't afford to operate a railway network, then that network will never exist.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
These are the questions to be answered once MOOSE is ready to apply for measures which do affect the public, such as subsidies, expropriations, construction and eventually: operation. As Allendale correctly remarks, MOOSE is nowhere close to that, therefore, I don't see any relevance in your questions for this forum at this point...