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Web of Streetcars!

No, no! Bus network connecting to web of streetcars connecting to linear induction rail line connecting to subway (connecting to another subway)!

By the time Malvernites get downtown they'll have to turn back around again. At very least they'll have to fit at least half an hour of padding in to their travel time.
 
Oh! But Malvernites won't be going downtown. They'll be going shopping in their wonderful streetcar suburb retail strip in the forests along Morningside!
 
Hopefully they'll have lots of dry cleaning that needs to be done and can get all their needs from convenience stores since they won't be going to STC either!
 
The Web of Streetcars is integral to the future of poor, underprivileged Malvern and fast-growing Morningside Heights. Of course, Malvern is overwhelmingly middle class and Morningside Heights is no longer fast-growing - it's pretty much done - but that doesn't matter when the fate of streetcars is on the line.

The best part is the Web of Streetcars doesn't even go to Malvern...it manages to avoid the mall, high schools, and apartments buildings!
 
The Web of Streetcars is integral to the future of poor, underprivileged Malvern and fast-growing Morningside Heights. Of course, Malvern is overwhelmingly middle class and Morningside Heights is no longer fast-growing - it's pretty much done - but that doesn't matter when the fate of streetcars is on the line.

The best part is the Web of Streetcars doesn't even go to Malvern...it manages to avoid the mall, high schools, and apartments buildings!

Probably deliberately, knowing the TTC.
 
Why should large clusters of people like Bathurst & Steeles or Warden & Finch be served with better transit when there's residents of a few crescents of detached homes backing onto the Rouge Park that so desperately need many hundreds of millions of dollars spent on them in the form of a Morningside line that doesn't go anywhere?
 
Bordeaux's transit ideas worth uncorking here

Oct 22, 2007 04:30 AM
Christopher Hume

Adam Giambrone has seen the future of the TTC – in France.

The Toronto Transit Commission chair recently spent a week looking at what the French have done to bring public transportation into the 21st century, and to put it simply, he was impressed, very impressed.

Bordeaux, for example, has already constructed 48 kilometres of a 60-kilometre tram system that opened in 2003.

"It's not theoretical," Giambrone says enviously. "It's actually being built."

For the beleaguered TTC chair, by contrast, it's mostly hurry up and wait. These days, the commission's bold expansion plans are on hold until the province comes through with some of the $12 billion it has promised. So far, the TTC has yet to see a penny.

In other words, although Premier Dalton McGuinty talks endlessly about his commitment to public transit, he has yet to sit down and write a cheque. Until he does, his brave words are just that, words.

"The trams in Bordeaux are packed," Giambrone reports. "They have huge ridership. The city is also reclaiming its 18th-century squares that were turned into parking lots back in the 1950s and '60s.

"Transit's not an ideological issue in Bordeaux; they didn't say, `The car is evil, we have to get rid of it.' They said, `The car is causing a lot of problems so we're going to have to give people alternatives.'"

Giambrone was also impressed that the Bordeaux trams run on a third rail that shuts off once the vehicle has passed. This provides safety and avoids the need for a Toronto-style clutter of overhead wires.

Here, the chair points out, transit has always been viewed as strictly "utilitarian." Overhead wires may mess up the city, but because they're cheap they're good enough for us.

More important, Giambrone argues, is how the French fund public transit. Some systems are privately run, others public, but in either case, the operators have a contractual arrangement that allows them to borrow money in anticipation of future funding and growth.

Meanwhile, the TTC must essentially start from scratch every year when it goes before city council to beg for funding.

"This means getting anything new is incredibly difficult," Giambrone explains. "You need government to lock in. It's hard to change things when every year you have to re-debate what you're going to do."

As he also points out, there's huge resistance to change among Torontonians; every time a proposal comes up for a pedestrian-only area, a streetcar right-of-way, or anything in between, the public screams bloody murder.

According to Giambrone, the same thing happened in Bordeaux when its transit plans were announced. But, he says, the French city, with a population of nearly 700,000 including suburbs, held no less than 2,000 public meetings in advance of construction, by which time there was general acceptance of the scheme.

"The next two years will be critical for the TTC," Giambrone says. "The most important aspect of public transit isn't cost but the quality of service."

As he points out, that's where Toronto's falling behind. The Queen streetcar, for instance, which once carried 60,000 to 70,000 passengers daily, can now handle only 40,000. And the vehicles themselves, 25 years old, have been surpassed by a new generation that has yet to arrive here.

Mostly though, Toronto has yet to have a debate about the role of the car in the city. Communities around the world have recognized the crucial importance of public transit, but here we still insist on the primacy of the single-occupancy vehicle. Like our neighbours to the south, whom we resemble more closely than ever, we prefer the comfort of the past to the rigours of the future.

Christopher Hume can be reached at chume@thestar.ca

That's a pretty ridiculous jab about how McGuinty hasn't written a cheque yet. His government hasn't even been sworn in yet.

I hope that Giambrone also looked at the signal priority that they use in France that allows streetcars to actually be competitive with walking, let alone the car.
 
I cringed when I read the first sentence. Reminded of yearly (or better) proclamations from Howard Moscoe about how whatever city he just returned from on vacation or junket had the coolest transit this or that, which we should, like, totally have here in Toronto. (Presumably to be forgotten a few weeks later). The last thing we need is a new Howard Moscoe minus 30 years of age. But that wasn't too bad. What I cringed at was not the comments of Giambrone but the commentary of Hume...

the Bordeaux trams run on a third rail that shuts off once the vehicle has passed. This provides safety and avoids the need for a Toronto-style clutter of overhead wires. ... Overhead wires may mess up the city, but because they're cheap they're good enough for us.

<rant>

*groan* The Bordeaux power system was cutting edge and developed specifically for Bordeaux. It's first use anywhere in the world was implemented in 2003. Four friggen years ago. The Toronto system is 115 years old now! Guess what Hume, overhead wires are good enough for every single city in the world except for Bordeaux! And that's not even touching the logic of using such a system where there is considerable snowfall.

</rant>

"Transit's not an ideological issue in Bordeaux; they didn't say, `The car is evil, we have to get rid of it.' They said, `The car is causing a lot of problems so we're going to have to give people alternatives.'"

Transit advocates should be shouting this line from the rooftops. It's not us vs. them... it's about alternatives.
 
I have to say... Bordeaux is only 1 million people.
And is there population expected to rise like Toronto's?
 
Yeah they aim real low, using a third-rate French city as the model instead of Paris itself. It's pretty sad.
 
The Citadis trams only use APS (in-ground selectively activated third rail) to get through a historical neighbourhood where using overhead wire or traditional ground conduit was deemed unacceptable. It is doubtful how effective it would be in Toronto winter conditions, given that the more temperate climate in Bordeaux still produced several initial glitches, and the City of Nice opted for battery power instead. Orleans, Angers and Reims are all getting it though.

APS is 300% the cost of overhead and adds $140k to each tram. Wikipedia has more here.

The new Paris T3 tram uses the same trams but with all-overhead. However, Alstom did not offer Citadis for the Toronto tender, presumably because one or more of the requirements were incompatible with the Citadis platform.
 
Mostly though, Toronto has yet to have a debate about the role of the car in the city. Communities around the world have recognized the crucial importance of public transit, but here we still insist on the primacy of the single-occupancy vehicle. Like our neighbours to the south, whom we resemble more closely than ever, we prefer the comfort of the past to the rigours of the future.
Where the hell does he get this crap? Can't he write an informative article without sounding like Eeyore?

Transit advocates should be shouting this line from the rooftops. It's not us vs. them... it's about alternatives.
I agree. The other one that gets me is transit reducing traffic congestion, which it doesn't do. What it does is give people a way of getting around the congestion.
 
Here's a brand new website for LRT in Hamilton, MoveOntario 2020 will fund $300 million towards two rapid transit lines in Hamilton (Eastgate to McMaster and Waterfront to near Rymal Rd). Another $100 million from the feds = $400 million.

http://www.hamiltonlightrail.com/

sample-lrt-map.png
 
Looks light a very good advocacy website by an amateur group pushing for light rail, while the city is more interested in BRT, as I recall.

Though I would like to see the Hamilton Street Railway once again live up to its name. All the power to them.
 

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