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SP!RE

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Okay... I have looked through thread after thread, read article after article, and done as much research as I can stand to do and I'm still confused about the new LRT. I am wondering if someone can lay out for me the following information in an organized manner:

1) What are the differences between the new streetcars (LRV's) and the streetcars that will be operating on the new LRT lines such as Finch West and Eglinton Crosstown? (I have heard about size differences, locations of doors, etc.) Are the new streetcars the LRV's and lines such as Eglinton Crosstown and Finch West will be LRT's?

2) Will there no longer be one-car streetcars? Will every street-car line from King to Carlton have 5-car-long LRV's?

3) How will payment work? Will you be able to scan transfers from subway stations to enter through any of the doors on the streetcars? I'd like a general explanation about how the new streetcars/LRT will change the process of getting around by streetcar as we currently know it.

I'm sure I'll think of more questions as time goes on. I can see why the general public has become so incredibly frustrated with the transit planning because almost nobody can keep up with all the different and subtle details and differences between the different LRT lines. I follow urban issues and architecture, as do many of my friends, yet none of us have any clue what this whole plan is going to look like, especially these new LRV's/LRT's/streetcars/whateverthehelltheyare. It's hard for anyone to make an opinion when they have been inundated with large amounts of information, much of it sometimes seemingly conflicting.

I want to become more informed about all this LRT and new-streetcar business but I just don't even know where to begin, so I hope this thread will be helpful to myself but also many other people in the same situation.

Thank you so much!!!
 

SP!RE

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POP as in there will be TTC workers roaming the streetcar to check if you have paid? (like on GO trains?)
 

SP!RE

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Also, that chart is very helpful but I still don't understand which trains will run on which routes... are the Metrolinx trains the ones that will operate on their own tracks separate from traffic? (ie. Spadina, Eglinton, St. Clair)?

What is the "Legacy network" referring to? I've never heard that term.

Is Transit City back on the table? (My understanding is that Metrolinx plans to build it, not the TTC.)
 
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gweed123

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Also, that chart is very helpful but I still don't understand which trains will run on which routes... are the Metrolinx trains the ones that will operate on their own tracks separate from traffic? (ie. Spadina, Eglinton, St. Clair)?

What is the "Legacy network" referring to? I've never heard that term.

Is Transit City back on the table? (My understanding is that Metrolinx plans to build it, not the TTC.)

The difference is that both the track gauge and the turning radius are different on the legacy network (i.e. the current streetcar network). The legacy network uses TTC gauge, whereas the Transit City lines will use standard gauge.

The legacy network streetcars have shorter segments (5 smaller segments), in order to be able to make the turns required without getting stuck. All and all, the vehicles meant for one network will not work on the other.

And yes, Transit City is back on the table, and every line except for the SRT refurb and extension is included in the new OneCity plan. The SLRT in OneCity is replaced with a B-D subway extension to Sheppard and McCowan.
 

SP!RE

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POP as in there will be TTC workers roaming the streetcar to check if you have paid? (like on GO trains?)

Thanks for all the answers. Still just wondering about this one ^^, then I think that aside from the politics, I'm up to date!
 

TheTigerMaster

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Thanks for all the answers. Still just wondering about this one ^^, then I think that aside from the politics, I'm up to date!

I don't think the TTC has worked out the payment situation yet. The only thing we know for sure is that the fare box will no longer be used. We should hear more about payment in the coming months.
 

ssiguy2

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What I've often wondered is if the legacy replacement vehicles can be "stretched"?

I know they can't be run in different number of cars like the LRV and of course all considerations have to due with needed turning radious but can the trains themselves be made longer by adding more articulated sections onto the train? As an example, will they be able to add 2 new articulated sections to bring the trains for 30 to 40 meters. There are many LRTs in Europe that are much longer than 30 meters without requiring a whole new trains.
 

SP!RE

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Not sure why we need a new thread for this other than - http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/3263-New-TTC-Streetcars

Because asking questions in there will 1) clog up that thread and 2) be buried by news and discussion by people who DO already know these things as common knowledge.

There's a LOT to know about this stuff, so I created a Q&A thread. I'm disappointed that it wouldn't be seen as a good way for people to have their questions answered.
 

gweed123

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Because asking questions in there will 1) clog up that thread and 2) be buried by news and discussion by people who DO already know these things as common knowledge.

There's a LOT to know about this stuff, so I created a Q&A thread. I'm disappointed that it wouldn't be seen as a good way for people to have their questions answered.

I think it's definitely a good thing. Never anything wrong with asking questions, especially if it lets you better understand the discussions being had.
 

doady

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Okay... I have looked through thread after thread, read article after article, and done as much research as I can stand to do and I'm still confused about the new LRT. I am wondering if someone can lay out for me the following information in an organized manner:

1) What are the differences between the new streetcars (LRV's) and the streetcars that will be operating on the new LRT lines such as Finch West and Eglinton Crosstown? (I have heard about size differences, locations of doors, etc.) Are the new streetcars the LRV's and lines such as Eglinton Crosstown and Finch West will be LRT's?

Streetcars are not light rail vehicles. Where would you get such a crazy idea.
 

SP!RE

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Given that the new streetcars and the LRV's that will be used on the Eglinton Crosstown line are hardly distinguishable apart from width and number of doors, I think you're overreacting a bit.

But yes, I realize that the current streetcars we have are nowhere near being proper LRT, and the the new ones are only a step closer to LRT.
 

gweed123

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Given that the new streetcars and the LRV's that will be used on the Eglinton Crosstown line are hardly distinguishable apart from width and number of doors, I think you're overreacting a bit.

But yes, I realize that the current streetcars we have are nowhere near being proper LRT, and the the new ones are only a step closer to LRT.

They're both LRT vehicles, but the Legacy Network is not an LRT operating environment.

The reality is that you could use the Legacy Network Streetcars (assuming they were standard gauge) on almost any low-floor LRT system in the world and they would work just fine (assuming compatible power systems, which has nothing to do with whether it's a streetcar or an LRT).
 

doady

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I was just joking. The current streetcar model TTC uses is called the Canadian Light Rail Vehicle after all. Just pointing out how vague and stupid the term "Light Rail Transit" is. It's purely a marketing term for modern semi-rapid light rail (as opposed to traditional non-rapid light rail), and it is nonsensical and meaningless in Toronto, which already has the largest light rail network in North America. When the new LRVs arrive and old LRVs replaced, the term "LRT" will become even more meaningless.
 

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