M II A II R II K
Senior Member
So we'll have streetcars that are twice as long as the CLRVs, and longer than the 23m ALRVs.
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- Thread starter SP!RE
- Start date
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I meant that it would be more economical to run more of the streetcars than to run longer versions, as they a 40 or 50 meter streetcar would take too much time to cross a light. It would create an unnecessary problem that could be solved by running more streetcars rather than longer ones.
dowlingm
Senior Member
The Citadis introduced in Dublin had 30m double end LRVs on one line and 40m double end LRVs on the other. Eventually they figured out they were under capacity on the other line and purchased 10m sections to "drop in" to the existing cars. Not sure how long it took to fit each but I think you're talking about days not months - I think there was platform work but the pocket tracks and crossovers might have been long enough already. However a 30m+ car in Toronto would definitely require bigger loops (or have its ass hanging out in the street), longer platforms, reconfigured storage tracks etc. Probably stuck with 28m now.
Running more or longer streetcars wouldn't be my choice for capacity uplift - I'd be working on headway management and traffic prioritisation (like vicious enforcement to grab the idiots picking up at Best Buy Bay/Dundas). I'd also look at reinstating a Division at Hillcrest to reduce some of the deadheading to and from Ashbridges/Russell/Roncesvalles for 511 and especially if 512 is extended to Jane or Scarlett following the well deserved ousted of Palacio at the next election (if someone transit friendly and Portuguese will step up).
Running more or longer streetcars wouldn't be my choice for capacity uplift - I'd be working on headway management and traffic prioritisation (like vicious enforcement to grab the idiots picking up at Best Buy Bay/Dundas). I'd also look at reinstating a Division at Hillcrest to reduce some of the deadheading to and from Ashbridges/Russell/Roncesvalles for 511 and especially if 512 is extended to Jane or Scarlett following the well deserved ousted of Palacio at the next election (if someone transit friendly and Portuguese will step up).
drum118
Superstar
I am Paris at this time and just came back from riding the T2 & T3 lines.
T2 is a double 5 section Alston car line with the cars being built back in 2006. The top speed is 80km per hour for the LRV, but the line top speed is 60kmp. Stops spacing is very close to St Clair. It is 100% in its own ROW and out of traffic flow until it returns to street level that still has it own ROW and stops short of the T3 line.
The T3 is a single 5 section car line where the platforms are built for 2 car trains. The line is in the process of doubling itself, if not more. Again, stop spacing is similar to St Clair for most of the line.
That nice green grass is a lost on our system. Top speed on the line is 50km per hour, with the LRV being able of doing 80kmp while the traffic is doing 30kmp. Speed limit is 30kmp on streets and 80 on the highway. No stop signs to be had at any street intersection without stop lights.
The Citadis model is along the line of the cars TTC is getting and still say Stadler has the best model out there at this time, based on what I have seen and rode so far.
I agree that 512 & 511 should have its own division to cut down on the deadheading, but Hillcrest is not the place.
I found the T3 should be double cars also, but looks like there is not enough rolling stock to do it. Service is all over the place ranging from 3-10 minutes at the same time of day.
The T3 is in the centre of the road for most of the route, but goes to one side of the road in places.
Transit have priority over traffic lights.
T2 is a double 5 section Alston car line with the cars being built back in 2006. The top speed is 80km per hour for the LRV, but the line top speed is 60kmp. Stops spacing is very close to St Clair. It is 100% in its own ROW and out of traffic flow until it returns to street level that still has it own ROW and stops short of the T3 line.
The T3 is a single 5 section car line where the platforms are built for 2 car trains. The line is in the process of doubling itself, if not more. Again, stop spacing is similar to St Clair for most of the line.
That nice green grass is a lost on our system. Top speed on the line is 50km per hour, with the LRV being able of doing 80kmp while the traffic is doing 30kmp. Speed limit is 30kmp on streets and 80 on the highway. No stop signs to be had at any street intersection without stop lights.
The Citadis model is along the line of the cars TTC is getting and still say Stadler has the best model out there at this time, based on what I have seen and rode so far.
I agree that 512 & 511 should have its own division to cut down on the deadheading, but Hillcrest is not the place.
I found the T3 should be double cars also, but looks like there is not enough rolling stock to do it. Service is all over the place ranging from 3-10 minutes at the same time of day.
The T3 is in the centre of the road for most of the route, but goes to one side of the road in places.
Transit have priority over traffic lights.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
that last one will be key for the implementation of the LRT routes in toronto.
cassius
Active Member
Just so I understand correctly, we're not really seeing an increase in service other than quicker passenger loading and the extra 4 meters for the car, right?
nfitz
Superstar
Extra 7 metres isn't it. New streetcars are 30 metres long as far as I know. And aren't the existing ones 23 metres, not 24?
But most of the streetcars are CLRVs not ALRVs, so the new cars are about twice as long as the old ones.
At peak periods, the new cars wouldn't be as frequent as the old ones. But also at AM peak there just isn't enough cars available to meet demand. So there should be some service increases. It's not entirely directly related. Spadina at peak should see increased speed, simply because there are fewer cars out there clogging all the lights. And as you noted the quicker loading (much of which comes because people aren't going to be stopping half-way up the steps to chat with the driver any more, and discuss routings and fares.
One of the biggest line items missing on this chart is the capacity of each vehicle. As I understand it, the new streetcars will have a higher capacity than the existing ALRVs.
One of the biggest benefits from the new streetcars, in my opinion, is the reduction in the number of Wheel Trans trips necessary south of Bloor. Currently, the majority of the routes downtown are not wheelchair accessible, resulting in a lot of Wheel Trans trips that could theoretically be more conveniently made using one or more streetcar routes. Being able to have wheelchair passengers use regular streetcar routes instead of a dedicated Wheel Trans trip will certainly save the City a lot of money, and will actually be more convenient and flexible for a lot of current Wheel Trans users.
nfitz
Superstar
It will be interesting to see how it works in practice, with the operator having to stop, leave the cockpit, walk back to the second door (hope the streetcar isn't too crowded), get the ramp out, install it, .... then uninstall it, put it away. Will also be interesting to see how they know to do that when the person is getting off.
The ramp is only at the 2nd door? That's a pretty big pain. And isn't the ramp automatic, like it is on buses?
nfitz
Superstar
Perhaps it is ... I was assuming it was like on the GO Trains. Still he has to walk all the way back there.
Well, it can only be at one door, because there is only one driver per streetcar.
Could be a huge pain ... hopefully those pushing about those unnecessary mega strollers aren't going to expect that kind of service, and will simply lift the strollers into the vehicle.
Jonny5
Senior Member
I was sure I read that there was button to press on the inside and outside of the car which automatically extended the ramp. Did this feature disappear?
Komiksulo
Active Member
If the ramps are anything like the ones on the Viva buses, the driver also has to watch that the ramp doesn't hit anyone when flipping out or in. The driver also helps the passenger park and secure their wheelchair or scooter.
smallspy
Senior Member
The ramp is activated by the passenger upon request to the operator. The operator doesn't even have to leave his cab - there will be cameras inside and outside monitoring everything, and so all he or she will have to do is flip a switch to allow the buttons around the second doorway to operate it.
As well, it is not a flip-out, but a modular slide-out ramp like virtually all of the low-floor LRVs built use.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
As well, it is not a flip-out, but a modular slide-out ramp like virtually all of the low-floor LRVs built use.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
That is also why they are rebuilding the platforms along Spadina. To make the height (and length) more level with the bottom of the new streetcars.
[video=youtube;xL7QEQuRqq0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL7QEQuRqq0[/video]
These Portland streetcars in the above video are not 100% low-floor.