scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Streetcars are fine for some routes, but others should be subways and still others should use plain old buses. Of course, saying so is mild heresy on this forum, in this city.
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- Thread starter goodboys
- Start date
Dan416
Senior Member
You know I have your back on this point Scarberian!
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Hydrogen
Guest
An east-west subway downtown would be nice. I don't think anyone is taking requests, though.
DENTROBATE54
Banned
That's just public ignorance and apathy talking. The hub of all GTA commuting is the downtown core (i.e. every suburbanite crying for more subways forget they're literally dumped on their rumps once exiting YUS) and transit is such now that people prefer walking great distances (say Yonge to Spadina) than await a go-slow, unreliable streetcar (501-506). The outlining areas have it even worse since during off-peak it's faster for someone in the Beaches/New Toronto to take a bus upto Bloor and take the subway downtown than it is to await the Queen Car. A new east-west line would have to very intricate (i.e. not just a straight line but divert where needed) and involve alot of stations (going against modern 1km apart conceptions). For those technical and financial reasons coupled with public disinterest, Mississauga will probably sooner see a new subway than Toronto's core.
JasonParis
Moderator
The lack of good esat-west transit in the greater downtown is also why I think biking has become as huge as it has in Toronto (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).
nfitz
Superstar
A portion of this is in the scope of the current "Don Mills Road Transit Improvements
Individual Environmental Assessment". Everyone here keeps commenting that the proposed Don Mills LRT would just dump everyone on the BD line - but if you read the EA terms of reference (TOR), that isn't necessarily what will happen.
Though it's not clear what is the status of the Individual EA now that that MOE has approaved Class EA for transit. It's interesting that the Kingston Road Individual EA has been converted to a Class EA, but the Don Mills Road one hasn't - though it was further advanced with the MOE already having approved an amended TOR.
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Hydrogen
Guest
Naw, I just want a subway line downtown that runs east-west, and runs through downtown. Not really worried about Don Mills. My interest purely selfish as it would suit me just fine (and probably most of the other people jammed onto the King streetcar).
nfitz
Superstar
As the Primary study area for the Don Mills EA goes along a corridor west all the way to University Avenue (between the lake and Dundas), surely this IS something you should be selfish about. If the EA results in the recommendation to build an underground streetcar tunnel along Queen from University to Pape ... then surely this is the start of your east-west downtown subway.
No one is going to be giving this out on a silver platter, but there is a process moving. So the platter is out - but if you want this, and think it is necessary to deal with the influx of passengers coming south from Don Mills, then go out and campaign!
No one is going to be giving this out on a silver platter, but there is a process moving. So the platter is out - but if you want this, and think it is necessary to deal with the influx of passengers coming south from Don Mills, then go out and campaign!
DENTROBATE54
Banned
Sadly this is precisely why a downtown subway will never happen. What should be a cluster of high-density stops with defined rider basis, now has to be short-changed to accomdate an influx of suburbanites. Downtown+ waterfront+ low density East York+ Don Mills. Why do think cities like Chicago, New York and London (plus countless European/Asian contenders) have dozens of subway/commuter rail lines? Because one line cannot do everything. Separate Don Mills and separate downtown lines yes, together no.
I've said this before Don Mills is better served by an Eglinton line, without the dumping of passengers at Bloor nor limiting the number of downtown stops to converse funds for EY/DM stops inclusive of possibly shutting down Pape Stn and through BD traffic for months. What happened to crawl before we walk? I'd take 15 stops in the core over 15 stops stretched from Union to Steeles in effect creating a measly Dufferin> Bathurst> Yonge> Parliament only scenario downtown.
nfitz
Superstar
I have no idea how an Eglinton line would serve Don Mills Road. Personally I frequently travel from about Pape Station to York Mills Road - how does an Eglinton line help me. There are times I travel from Pape to near Don Mills Station - and even the existing Don Mills bus is faster than taking 3 subway lines. I suppose if your right a the corner of Don Mills and Eglinton it's useful, but it doesn't serve the north-south traffic on Don Mills road at all.
I'm not sure that New York City is a great example of anything. It's been decades since any major subway construction in that city. The line they are currently building - when did they start trying to build that? 1929? Eighty years and they are still working on it ...
Chicago hasn't seen any serious expansion since ... the 1960's? And in London they finally completed the Jubilee line in 1999 ... 27 years after construction began (and about a half-century after planning began, delayed by a decade of debate of how to get to the east-end, and abandoning a lot of completed and partially completed tunnel in the process; meanwhile they've been planning the Chelsea-Hackney tube for 35 years now (well, after an aborted start over 100 years ago) ..., and although they've safeguarded the route, they predict that it will be another couple of decades before it ever opens.
Toronto has no monopoly on bad planning. I agree we need a downtown east-west subway ... and there's actually a crack opening that might see it. Sure, it's ass-backwards ... but play the hand that has been dealt, rather than one that we'll likely never get.
I'm not sure that New York City is a great example of anything. It's been decades since any major subway construction in that city. The line they are currently building - when did they start trying to build that? 1929? Eighty years and they are still working on it ...
Chicago hasn't seen any serious expansion since ... the 1960's? And in London they finally completed the Jubilee line in 1999 ... 27 years after construction began (and about a half-century after planning began, delayed by a decade of debate of how to get to the east-end, and abandoning a lot of completed and partially completed tunnel in the process; meanwhile they've been planning the Chelsea-Hackney tube for 35 years now (well, after an aborted start over 100 years ago) ..., and although they've safeguarded the route, they predict that it will be another couple of decades before it ever opens.
Toronto has no monopoly on bad planning. I agree we need a downtown east-west subway ... and there's actually a crack opening that might see it. Sure, it's ass-backwards ... but play the hand that has been dealt, rather than one that we'll likely never get.
DENTROBATE54
Banned
South of Overlea Blvd doesn't have to be a subway. Remove one bus route from Pape and congestion minimises speeding commutes, alternatively Donlands provides similar service of 8 minutes from BD to Overlea. 81 Thorncliffe Park already duplicates Don Mills' route south to the subway. Everywhere between between Queen and the Don Valley is within the catchment of the Danforth line, hence it's really not worth it to spend multimillions on in an area already well served by transit.
North of Lawrence Ave. Don Mills truly becomes suburban with density limited to the major intersections (York Mills, Sheppard, Finch, Steeles). This is why a subway isn't required for the northern leg either, since naturally the most-trafficked bus stops are at those intersections. BRT rather provides adequate service.
The image below depicts how an Eglinton Subway line could accomodate the densest quadrant of 25 Don Mills from the East York Town Centre through Gateway Blvd, Ontario Science Centre, Wynford/Barber Greene and the Don Mills Shopping Centre. Included also is relief to 100 Flemingdon Pk via stations along it's Wynford Heights section with vast office and condo clusters.
Panzerfaust
Active Member
Your image appears to be broken, incidentally. Can you fix it please? This seems like an interesting proposal and I'd like to see it.The image below depicts how an Eglinton Subway line could accomodate the densest quadrant of 25 Don Mills from the East York Town Centre through Gateway Blvd, Ontario Science Centre, Wynford/Barber Greene and the Don Mills Shopping Centre. Included also is relief to 100 Flemingdon Pk via stations along it's Wynford Heights section with vast office and condo clusters.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
On the contrary, a Don Mills line would serve Eglinton well, since it, unlike Don Mills, doesn't really have a long string of nodes worth serving with higher order transit...Don Mills is one of its main nodes. A Don Mills line would also take quite a few bus trips off Eglinton Avenue, thus reducing Eglinton's seemingly abundant ridership.
isittimetomoveyet
Active Member
This is one good looking LRV...
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Single-point double-point switches
A low-floor light-rail vehicle has no physical axle connection between the wheels or trucks to accommodate the low-floor. There maybe wiring or hydraulic connection to "tell" the wheels that we are turning at a track switch. Most new light-rail systems use the double-point switch to guide the wheels. Currently, the TTC streetcar had been using single-point switches.
When I last remembered to look down at the switches on the St. Clair right-of-way at Bathurst and Vaughan, or at Dundas West Station, I thought I saw only single-point switches.
Are the switches on Dundas Street that were re-constructed in 2007 single-point or double-point switches?
What kind of switches are being placed at St. Clair West and Lansdowne?
Does this mean we will have to dig up the "new" single-point switches and replace them double-point switches in a few years? Couldn't we put in double-point switches now?
A low-floor light-rail vehicle has no physical axle connection between the wheels or trucks to accommodate the low-floor. There maybe wiring or hydraulic connection to "tell" the wheels that we are turning at a track switch. Most new light-rail systems use the double-point switch to guide the wheels. Currently, the TTC streetcar had been using single-point switches.
When I last remembered to look down at the switches on the St. Clair right-of-way at Bathurst and Vaughan, or at Dundas West Station, I thought I saw only single-point switches.
Are the switches on Dundas Street that were re-constructed in 2007 single-point or double-point switches?
What kind of switches are being placed at St. Clair West and Lansdowne?
Does this mean we will have to dig up the "new" single-point switches and replace them double-point switches in a few years? Couldn't we put in double-point switches now?